Gay Marriage: Prop 8 set aside in CA

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by BigWill, Aug 4, 2010.

  1. Rayug

    Rayug 100+ Posts

    I am still wondering with all these arguments that are pro-gay marriages on how they will address not allowing polygamists or incestuous marriages. It seems to me that this ruling could possibly say that the government can not ban anything about marriage between two (or more?) consenting adults.
     
  2. Septimus

    Septimus 250+ Posts

    rickysrun and BigWill,
    You're both displaying the typical dangerous left wing mindset that believes the government to be the ultimate, absolute authority on all matters. Marriage was not initially defined by the U.S. government and therefore it is not subject to be REDEFINED by the U.S. government. If they want to give gay couples the same benefits as straight couples through civil unions, that's fine, but same sex couples still do not fit the unalterable definition of marriage. It's dangerous to give so much power to the government that the feel they can usurp God, and traditions that stretch across millenia and all cultures worldwide, to change something that is absolute.

    Maybe next the U.S. government can decree that 1+1= 3. Afterall the precedent is being set that if they declare something to be so, inspite of facts and reality, it will be so.
     
  3. JohnnyM

    JohnnyM 2,500+ Posts


     
  4. rickysrun

    rickysrun 2,500+ Posts


     
  5. BigWill

    BigWill 2,500+ Posts

    what a crock of ****.

    Have you ever been to a wedding?

    Does the phrase "...the power vested in my by the state of (blank), I now pronounce you man and wife".

    What does that mean to you?
     
  6. rickysrun

    rickysrun 2,500+ Posts


     
  7. Rayug

    Rayug 100+ Posts


     
  8. HornBud

    HornBud 2,500+ Posts


     
  9. BigWill

    BigWill 2,500+ Posts


     
  10. Oilfield

    Oilfield Guest

    Government of the lawyers, by the lawyers, and for the lawyers. [​IMG]
     
  11. allweatherHorn

    allweatherHorn 1,000+ Posts

    You may want to see how many great leaders of this country have been lawyers. Quite a few. Lawyers have had a pretty significant role in protecting the American people from all sorts of injustices.
     
  12. Clean

    Clean 5,000+ Posts

    Just keep this formula in mind and you'll understand the politically correct jungle that passes for the US of A these days:

    Man + Woman = Man + Man = Woman + Woman
     
  13. allweatherHorn

    allweatherHorn 1,000+ Posts

    Brilliant.

    Honestly, why does anyone give a **** if a man marries another man, or a woman marries another woman? How does this impact you (other than potentially offending your religious beliefs, which are not supposed to be part of the formula)?
     
  14. LonghorninAustin

    LonghorninAustin 1,000+ Posts


     
  15. rickysrun

    rickysrun 2,500+ Posts


     
  16. lhb98

    lhb98 250+ Posts

    From a purely logical standpoint, I would say it means he thinks that men and women are not equal under the eyes of the law. If they were, his equations would hold true under the transitive property.
     
  17. THEU

    THEU 2,500+ Posts

    lhb,
    maybe men and women are equal, but not equated such as

    1 apple + 1 apple = 1 apple + 1 orange = 1 orange + 1 orange

    I am not attempting to comment on prop 8 or the legal actions pursuint thereof. I am only speaking about how your logic is somewhat flawed, and attempting to do so in a good natured ribbing, which is how I took your post [​IMG]
     
  18. rickysrun

    rickysrun 2,500+ Posts

    lhb98 and THEU...I appreciate your efforts in breaking down the formula. Unfortunately, I'm kinda dumb and it's still as clear as mud!
     
  19. Ramius

    Ramius 250+ Posts

    here we go again....

    this isn't about rights, it's about a word.

    a word that means one thing and one thing only.... a union between a man and a woman.

    men and woman may be equal but they are not identical. seems juvenile to say but some of you can't seem to grasp the concept.

    and, since men and women are not identical, it's impossible to reason that man + woman = man + man = woman + woman just like the apples and oranges note above.
     
  20. rickysrun

    rickysrun 2,500+ Posts


     
  21. Clean

    Clean 5,000+ Posts


     
  22. Ramius

    Ramius 250+ Posts


     
  23. SDhorn

    SDhorn 250+ Posts


     
  24. rickysrun

    rickysrun 2,500+ Posts


     
  25. THEU

    THEU 2,500+ Posts

    while I have written far more than I ever intended on WM about this subject let me say this that pertains to far more than the issue of marriage...

    We are a culture that now has no foundations. Words have no meaning. Definitions are only good in so far as someone is willing to believe in them. If you say you don't believe in a definition, then that is ok, just define things as you see them. Our world has become unhinged. This is far graver a situation than conservative or liberal. It is truly a world gone mad. A tree is only a tree if you wish to call it a tree. If you wish to call it a large bush is it a large bush. If you wish to call it tall woody grass, then it is tall woody grass. Who am I to impose my worldview upon yours. It is nothing short than insanity.
    Our world is undone. Words do not matter. Definitions do not matter. Gender, genes, genetic code, rule of law.... these are nothing more than words left to be defined by the hearer, and not the speaker. We have no grounds or foundation by which to tether these things. They are as you wish them to be. If you desire to call candy healthy and food then they are as you say, because who are we, or society, or the rule of law to discredit your defintion or worldview.

    Indeed, we are a world untethered.... God (or lack there of) help us all.
     
  26. Ramius

    Ramius 250+ Posts

  27. SDhorn

    SDhorn 250+ Posts

    Actually the definition of marriage has been all over the place for ever.

    Catholics would not consider a man and a woman who live together as man and wife a marriage if they were previously divorced.

    Many civilizations define marriage as multiple wives.

    Many states define marriage as simply two people who have lived together for a certain period of time.

    Some define marriage as requiring a ceremony before God. Others believe it is more of a civil institution and that even atheists can be married.

    Some believe that love is an important element of marriage. Other believe it is a mere business transaction in which a father essentially "sells" his daughter into "marriage."

    Many in the past would not consider the union of a black man and a white woman as a marriage.

    For most of the last 4,000 years, the woman in a marriage in many civilizations was essentailly considered to be chattel.

    Some people who call themselves Christians believe the union of a man and a man before God is a marriage where others dispute it vigorously.

    Frankly, in today's world the sex of the parties seems to me to be one of the least important aspects of what I call a marriage.

    I believe the true committment to each other proven with both words and deeds is by far the most important element in my definition of marriage.

    I see lots of people who claim to be married and their claim is backed by the government, who are absolutely not committed to each other. And it is those types of "marriages" that are very bad for society.
     
  28. THEU

    THEU 2,500+ Posts

    SDHorn,
    That is not really my point. I don't know if you have seen a great deal of what I have written on this subject, but I have acknowledged just about all of what you have said. That is not my point. I acknowledge different definitions.
    My point is about something far more foundational in culture than marriage. Marriage is not the primary issue to which I speak. There are foundations which undergird the fabric of our culture that are far deeper. People in our country will be led into great dispair, not because of economic situation, nor because we are at war, nor because of romantic relationship, but something far more profoundly fundamental to the human exerience. We truly, as a culture have a poor understanding of love (which you actually do a great job of describing), of family, commitment, honour, hope, and wonder, and worship.
    These are some foundational things that are common to human culture, and which are necessary for a culture to continue. We seem to be losing things and becoming unhinged at a level far deeper than conservative v. liberal, dem. v. repub, or even, I would say Christian v. non Christian, or even this religion v. that religion of any kind. The problem is we are losing our humanity.
     
  29. JohnnyM

    JohnnyM 2,500+ Posts

    to THEU's defense, he thinks the world is going to **** for far more reasons than just this. he's a chicken little about nearly everything these days.
     
  30. rickysrun

    rickysrun 2,500+ Posts


     

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