2018 Senate (& House)

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by Joe Fan, Mar 22, 2017.

  1. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    That is not an example of subsidies leading to lower prices in the US.

    No. That is the market working. The Chinese worker is willing to work for less. He or she still made the decision to work in the factory over other possibilities. That is individual choice not slavery.

    If consumer's really cared about where shoes were made they would be willing to pay the premium for made in the USA shoes. But we don't.

    Market competition between areas of higher or lower labor rates is one of the ways prices are reduced. It may make life in the US more difficult but that isn't an excuse for government's to tell companies where to make their goods or to tax a good based on where is was produced. Again, all that does is hurt American consumers.

    Like I said before, get rid of income, sales, payroll, and corporate taxes and I would be agreeable to tariffs. That would be a real way to reduce cost of living to Americans and providing a level of protection to American businesses. I would vote for someone who proposed that.

    Legitimate prices are determined by what consumers are willing to pay. Prices as they exist today have been determined by millions and sometimes billions of people making decisions about how much they are willing to spend on an item.

    We will see. Economic changes take time to move through an economy. We already know that the Chinese tariffs on American agriculture have harmed them. We have also seen some of the Chinese tariff removed because the lack of American agriculture harmed Chinese consumers.

    We are also seeing the Fed lowering their rate which means they don't think the fundamentals of the economy are very strong. They are preparing for something and only time will tell. The GDP growth rate wasn't good in 2019 by the way.
  2. ShAArk92

    ShAArk92 1,000+ Posts

    I support "fairtax.org" ... mostly anyway.

    I don't disagree with your statement, but that really is separate from the tariff issue.

    willing? yeah, OK. slave labor my friend. And we're the plantation owners.
    (BTW, I've been a New Balance guy since the late 80s, FWIW, it wasn't a political issue when I switched, but thanks to Doofernick, I wouldn't have a pair of Nike's if you paid me to have 'em.
    not really. when govt regulation is reset to a proper level, the response is almost overnight. That's what we've seen the last two years. Trump has more work to do WRT the behemoth EPA and IRS ... but perhaps in term 2?

    that assumes a free market which we do not have with international producers and no tariffs.

    As I've said, tariffs can be abused ... a higher rate on the imported product than the company is getting in subsidy by either money or forced labor.

    I just find it interesting tariffs are a 4-letter word now that a guy with an R next to his name is proposing it.
  3. Phil Elliott

    Phil Elliott 2,500+ Posts

    New Balance seems to make it work.
  4. nashhorn

    nashhorn 2,500+ Posts

    The Chinese workeris willing to work for less. He or she still made the decision to work in the factory over other possibilities. That is individual choice notslavery

    (Sorry the quote option wasn’t working for me)

    You really believe that Mona? I’m surprised.
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    I'm not a fan of tariffs in general (but not per se opposed), but this has made me chuckle. Trump supports tariffs, and the entire media starts repeating free trader talking points. In the past, they mostly did the reverse. When NAFTA and GATT were being negotiated, we heard tons of predictions about job losses, lost manufacturing sectors, etc. However, that was back when the Democratic Party was very dependent on private sector organized labor. Now that they aren't, nobody in the media gives a crap.
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    I know nothing about New Balance. Maybe they make profit without low cost labor.

    But that was not my point. Good for them though. My point was that consumers don't choose New Balance over the other shoes because of their manufacturing process. Maybe some do, but they aren't the market leaders. That is the point.
  7. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    That is a misunderstanding of the situation. Yes, they don't make much money compared to US labor. Their economy isn't as developed. The Chinese people have willfully chosen to work in those factories. They had other options. Working in the factory was their best option. As a result 1 Billion people have been lifted out of poverty.
  8. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    Yes. You have to look at the situation they are in. They don't live in the US with an economy that has been developed by markets and capital for 200 years.

    By moving from farms to factories they have started that development. It is already working. Chinese labor rates are rising. This is how the US in my mind can be a world leader, encourage free markets and trade, so that the 3rd world can develop their economies. We will all benefit overall.
  9. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    Deez, the opposite is true also. Now that Trump is for tariffs and government intervention in the economy, Republicans and some conservatives are now for all those things that they were against when Obama or Clinton was President.

    My stance is the consistent classical liberal, conservative, libertarian stance.

    Tariffs aren't bad because they are bad. They are bad today because we already fund the government through other means, need to reduce spending, tariffs are a tax on the American people.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

  11. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Just another corrupt Dem
  12. LongestHorn

    LongestHorn 1,000+ Posts

  13. LongestHorn

    LongestHorn 1,000+ Posts

    • Funny Funny x 1
  14. LongestHorn

    LongestHorn 1,000+ Posts

  15. mchammer

    mchammer 5,000+ Posts

    It’s about the evidence. What evidence is there against Trump? I haven’t seen any.
  16. Horn6721

    Horn6721 Half of seeming clever is keeping your mouth shut.

    Bless your heart. I bet you giggled as you posted all those<gasp> defining links.
    Has anyone on here defended Duncan if he is guilty?
  17. LongestHorn

    LongestHorn 1,000+ Posts

  18. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    He's not innocent, and neither is his wife.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Movita Johnson-Harrel the historic first Muslim woman elected to the Pennsylvania House of Representatives and who won a special election in March for a West Philadelphia district, has been arrested for stealing $500,000 from a charity
    She was one of CAIR's instant media stars of 2019
    The nonprofit organization she stole from was one she founded purportedly to serve the mentally ill and poor who were fighting addiction. But we all know by now how charities and Dem politicians roll.
    The report says she will plead guilty
    Pennsylvania AG Shapiro: State Rep. Movita Johnson-Harrell To Plead Guilty To Stealing Over $500,000 From Nonprofit She Founded
  20. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada Liquor Man

    Good. Throw her raggedy thieving *** in jail for a long, long time.
    • Like Like x 3
  21. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada Liquor Man

    Or perhaps we should simply chop off one of her hands instead.
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Hot Hot x 1
  22. mchammer

    mchammer 5,000+ Posts

  23. Horn6721

    Horn6721 Half of seeming clever is keeping your mouth shut.

    LH is likely depressed as Duncan Hunter is resigning and NoOne on here has defended Hunter.
  24. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Is this what is wrong with America?

    In the pic are 7 members of Congress, all coastal, liberal elites, who have served 191 combined years in Congress, representing --

    —San Francisco
    —Los Angeles
    —Springfield, Mass

    This is the handful of people attempting to overthrow the votes of 63 million Americans

    • poop poop x 1
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2019
  25. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    • WTF? WTF? x 1
  26. Horn2RunAgain

    Horn2RunAgain 500+ Posts

    NJ Democrat to flip to R

    So much speculation on details of the tipping point here

    Rep. Jeff Van Drew, anti-impeachment Democrat, expected to switch parties after Trump meeting

    Officials said Saturday that Rep. Jeff Van Drew of New Jersey, a vocally anti-impeachment Democrat, will join the Republican Party in the coming days — delivering a political jolt to Democrats ahead of next week’s expected vote to impeach the president.....

    Three Democratic officials familiar with Van Drew’s discussions in recent days said he has decided to switch parties; two said his staff was informed of his decision Saturday. The White House meeting was confirmed by a Trump administration official and one of the Democratic officials.
  27. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    This can be seen as good news and bad news. The bad news is that the Republican Party is now becoming 90s Democratic Party. Center Left and Industrial Unionists are moving to the Republican Party.

    It isn't really a Conservative, Classic Liberal Party anymore.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  28. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    They have little choice. The other party wants to import massive numbers of third world laborers which will bust unions, and the other party's leaders demotivate your members by being crackpots on cultural issues. And what can the GOP do? Tell them they aren't welcome and not to vote for them? I doubt it.

    That is true. We sold fiscal and at least some facets of economic conservatism for Trumpism. However, I'm not sure that the Van Drew defection is all that indicative of this. For a Northeastern Democrat, he's very conservative and probably closer to the GOP.

    It makes political sense too. He isn't like Joe Manchin, who's able to stay a Democrat, because West Virginia Democrats are largely moderate and still fairly rural. New Jersey Democrats are heavily urban and quickly moving to the Left of guys like Van Drew. If he remained a Democrat, he'd either have to ditch his principles and turn into a crackpot like the rest of his party or face primary challenges that would get harder every election as the party slouches closer to AOC territory. By becoming a moderate Republican in a GOP-leaning swing district who probably attracts some of the non-crazy Democrats, he can probably hold that seat as long as he wants.
  29. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    You're right. But for me gaining working class votes is great as long as you don't start incorporating union ideology with labor restriction and partiality.
  30. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    I think they're going to expect some of that. Obviously they wanted economic protectionism and an end to reforming entitlements, and they're pretty much getting that from Trump.

    What's going to get interesting is if there becomes a push from some Republicans to advance an overtly pro-union agenda such as getting rid of right to work laws, card check, or raising the minimum wage. We don't do persuasion anymore or really even try very much, so that means we have to make concessions that are least damaging, because we aren't adding people to our base. Would we rather make them with union bosses or people who are weirdos on social issues? Is it worse to play ball with unions or people who like drag queen story hour? I'm making light of it a little, but it's a serious question.
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2019

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