A'sD posted something in the babykiller thread that caused me to think about this so rather than further derail that thread, I figured I'd start this one. He posted: "Go kill a pregnant woman and you will be charged with 2 counts of murder. You can't have it both ways. Killing babies is killing babies." I'm in disagreement with him on whether a fetus is a person but I completely agree with the overall point he's making. Either a fetus is a person or it's not. If a person believes that it's not a person, then they really shouldn't think there should be any more regulation over abortion than over medical care in general. If a person believes that it is a person, then they really shouldn't ever be ok with killing it under any circumstance. About 30-35% of the population opposes abortion but makes an exception for cases of rape or incest. If the fetus is a person, why would the means of conception possibly make it acceptable to kill it? Surely we couldn't kill a 5-year old child because it was the product of rape or incest so why can we kill an unborn person? Is there a segment of the population that doesn't actually think a fetus is a person but thinks that a woman should have to face the consequences of having sex and so they are willing to forgive her if she was raped? Is there a segment of the population that thinks a fetus is like half a person so it deserves partial protection but not total? Is there some other rationale that I just can't think of?
Pretty simple. If you murder a pregnant woman, you are charged with 2 counts of murder. So, how can abortion not be murder, and how can the fetus be considered a person in one case, and not a person in the other? Double standard.
We have really complicated the abortion issue. I think the solution is pretty straightforward. Using the latest, most comprehensive medical research and statistics, determine the viability threshold of a human fetus. What is the earliest that a fetus/person can reasonably be removed from the mother and survive medically. 25 weeks? 22 weeks? Abortion before that time - legal Abortion after that time - banned As science gets better, we'll have fewer abortions. Everybody wins.
Science will ultimately place the threshold for viability at conception. We'll have women who have zygotes removed and that will result in farms of unwanted fetuses gestating in laboratories. Not a pretty picture.
I've always thought the rape and incest escape clause was highly hypocritcal. If you are against abortion you should be against it period. Of course im completely pro-choice but i get a belly laugh out of pro-life people up on their pedestal with their dirty convenient little exceptions.
gotta agree with FR on this, its not a so much a double standard as it is a woman's choice; one standard. i'm pro choice but i do think that killing a pregnant woman is a double homicide. i could say thats its all cause of woman's choice and i do believe that but i'm sure someone will think of a good counter to this.
I happen to be a pro lifer but noticed years ago the double standard. I think that if a woman is raped she should have a choice to carry the baby to full gestation or terminate if she so chooses. Abortion as a form of birth control is just flat our wrong and immoral. The Ron Paul campaign brought the issue to further closure for me as I reread the constitution. I believe life begins at conception and that the fetus or infant has right to life. There are no people groups as the founders envisioned and so clearly stated in the declaration. Life is a god given right and government is there to secure that right and not to legislate its death at the whim of some irresponsible person. As far as my Christian beliefs go, before I was a Christian if I had gotten a girl pregnant the perfectly natural thing for me to do to address the problem would have been to get an abortion for the girl I got pregnant. That changed only after I was changed. I do not judge anyone who in ignorance gets an abortion. I do not judge even if they knew what I now know. I also believe there is what I call spiritual abortions. Scripture teaches one must be born again to see or enter into the Kingdom. If there is abortion in the physical there is also abortion in the spiritual. Generally the spiritual abortionists (IMHO) are the ones making the biggest noise at those in the world over physical abortions. I read a book called Holy Terror by Jim Siegelman & Flo ConwayThe Link back in the 80's. A must read if you are stuck in a religious movement that focuses on the abortion issue.
there's so much on this thread i want to quote and reply to, it's crazy. HHK--i agree with you completely in principle, but we are on opposite sides of the issue. i'm a pro-lifer, and feel that there should be no exceptions except for the health of the mother. (i don't mean "i'll feel sick," or "i hear childbirth is a risky medical procedure"). if the mother is GOING to die carrying the child to term (most likely resulting in the death of the baby as well, obviously) then abortion is the only option. It sucks, but this is life. people die.
Let's also get something straight here. If there's any confusion between abortion and the double murder, it was created by the double murder law and not abortion. Abortion has been around forever. The Unborn Victims of Violence Act was enacted in 2004 and only applies to death of a fetus during Federal Crimes. The common law doesn't allow for criminal action for the death of a fetus as a fetus is not yet breathing. Every single state fetal homicide law came into being after Roe v. Wade. Every state has a different stance on development stage in regards to fetal homicide. So again, if there is confusion, that confusion was not created by pro-choice people, it was created by the anti-choice side. As far as the original topic, I am obviously pro-choice, but I do see it as hypocritical. If you think its a baby from conception, then what does it matter if the woman was raped?
