Academic standings

Discussion in 'In The Stands' started by old65horn, Dec 12, 2017.

  1. old65horn

    old65horn 1,000+ Posts

    I am not sure where this belongs, I first thought of the "West Mall", not sure it's political so here goes.

    I am concerned about how our university has slipped in academic standings. Newsweek has us now as No. 18 in public universities. What is concerning is that Florida, Georgia from the SEC is now higher. I think it must be that our fair state does not value education as much as other states. Penn State and Purdue are also ranked higher.

    Interesting, California has a lot of schools ranked in the top 10. It must be that California has a higher tax structure to support their educational systems. You would expect Cal Berkeley yo be rank higher. However, UCLA, Cal San Diego, Cal Irvine and Cal Davis are ALL ranked higher, I guess that is why California's economy is much better than Texas. California would be the 6th biggest economy in the world if they were a separate country.

    Will Alabama also pass us in academic rankings? Texas is losing ground. I value my degree much more than any National Championship ring we have won.
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    Last edited: Dec 12, 2017
  2. SabreHorn

    SabreHorn 5,000+ Posts

    Leadership or lack thereof is the culprit - Cunningham, Burdahl, Powers, Fenves. Together those four could not lead a group of Boy Scouts across a cow pasture.

    We were firmly entrenched in the mid 40s - TIER I, near Public Ivy status. Now we are in the low 50s (technically Tier II) and falling. Both Florida and Georgia were in the 60s, but have screamed past us. Don't look now, but once Tier III SMU is only four spots behind us and gaining.

    Still. our administration continues to play "figures don't lie, but liars do figure" by pumping out skewed numbers hoping the bright lights blind the truth.
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  3. X Misn Tx

    X Misn Tx 2,500+ Posts

    Not giving any opinion, but sometimes rankings like this don't reflect the same measurements with the same weight. Might be that the way UT measures itself is just "different?"
  4. yelladawgdem

    yelladawgdem 1,000+ Posts

    An interesting note on the California schools. It is a state with a staggering tax burden, but is one of the fastest growing economies on earth. Additionally, they are sitting on a budget surplus, while Texas is drowning in a sea of red ink.

    Believe it or not, I am not making a political statement here. Just pointing out what is happening in two mega states.
    • Like Like x 1
  5. VYFan

    VYFan 2,500+ Posts

    Doesn’t our top 10% or 8% rule deliberately make ineligible about half the best applicants that would otherwise come to UT? (The 9-18 percentile of the best HS students from the best high schools.)
    Maybe I’m wrong.
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  6. SabreHorn

    SabreHorn 5,000+ Posts

    Student ranking does not impact our Tier status, but it will have a huge impact on donations to The University in a few years. Our dumbass administration has allowed the school to be filled with nerds and foreigners rather than well rounded students.

    Several years ago, Mr Josey hosted a meeting in the wine room of River Oaks Country Club, with the school brass. After he had heard enough of their sanctimonious ********, he said, "Having served several years as Vice Chairman of the Regents, I can say that over 90% of the money donated from Harris County is sitting in this room. The only person I know for sure that could have gotten into Texas under your proposed requirements is Rick Kaminsky, and he went to Yale. He's just here because he loves our football team>"

    Further research revealed that virtually all the donations from foreign students came from only two individuals. Further research has shown the top schools for the children of TexasEx boomers are OU, TCU, SWT. Baylor used to be included. SEC schools are increasingly popular - mostly LSU, Ole Miss, Arkansas, Alabama.

    One of the principal reasons for limiting enrollment is fighting among the faculty, The English building has 15-20 unused classrooms, but refuses to allow the business school to use them for overflow. Educrats at their finest, supported by a selfserving, clueless adminstration.

    • Like Like x 3
  7. old65horn

    old65horn 1,000+ Posts

    I believe the rule is to give students from poorer schools to have an equal shot at life with the privileged. I see nothing wrong with that. Being better educated because of financial situation does not make someone smarter, it makes them better educated.

    I do not think that is the problem. I do not really know what the problem is, I know we have one and I want it fixed.
  8. Vol Horn 4 Life

    Vol Horn 4 Life 5,000+ Posts

    Bingo! Just walk the campus and look at who's here. You hit the nail on the head. All of the types of kids who used to attend Texas are now at Sam Houston, UTA, UTSA, etc.
  9. IvanDiabloHorn

    IvanDiabloHorn 1,000+ Posts

    There no problem with the top 7.5% admission. The best students in the state are admitted regardless of color, ethnicity etc. These students have the higher average gpas than the holistic baloney.

    The admission of the remaining 25% and 2nd year transfers is the problem along with who is awarded scholarships. Dirty business.
    • Like Like x 1
  10. IvanDiabloHorn

    IvanDiabloHorn 1,000+ Posts

    Every Texas Ex I know has cut off donations. Fenves and Texas doesn’t care. The strange thing is the confidence Texex parents and grandparents have that admission to Texas won’t be a problem for the kids even after being told. Then they find out. Not sure the 2000 and prior graduates will ever contribute what Texas could have received. I am not talking about the “look at me” rich that get recognized for their donations. I am talking about the tens of thousands of exes like me that have cut off donations. For the record, both of my sons were accepted under the top ten percent and graduated Texas.
    • Like Like x 1
  11. SabreHorn

    SabreHorn 5,000+ Posts

    One of the sad parts is that parents are now transferring their children for their senior year to an under performing school. An example is the Spring Branch ISD, where Memorial & Stratford perform well, so that being top 5% is very difficult. Hence, parents move their children to Spring Woods & Northbrook for graduation.

    Not all schools are equal. You cannot tell me that the middle of the pack student at Strake or St John's or the better Katy, CyFair, Clear Lake schools are not better prepared for The University of Texas than the top students in schools taken over by the State Of Texas - Lamarque, Beaumont, Port Arthur, North Forest, et al.
  12. ViperHorn

    ViperHorn 10,000+ Posts

    You forgot Dallas, Houston, Austin and San Antonio (except NEISD) ISD's (probably more but I know these 4 (counting SA as one).
  13. zuckercanyon

    zuckercanyon 1,000+ Posts

    I understand, Sabre, but wanted to throw in my two cents. I grew up in a small town west of here. I was top 10% at the time and got into Texas. I struggled here but eventually got my degree. I probably would’ve done better academically and emotionally if I would’ve settled for another school in Texas, but finally getting that degree from Texas is one of my proudest moments. I feel blessed that I got that opportunity. Suburban kids that go to the better schools with better teachers and facilities obviously do better than someone like myself and are more deserving in some respects. But I’m glad my parents didn’t have to move to a better district for my Texas opportunity to be more “well deserved “.
  14. IvanDiabloHorn

    IvanDiabloHorn 1,000+ Posts

    Zucker hit on one the main beneficiaries of the Top 10 percent law, the rural schools.
    Regardless of color of ethnicity, the rural kids got left out prior to the law.
  15. VYFan

    VYFan 2,500+ Posts

    Yes, that may be, and I suppose I can be for that, but you can’t do rural/urban and racial and other types of diversity opportunity and at the same time dazzle the East Coast pointy-heads who make up top-10 lists. I think.

    Wasn’t that the original concern stated, that someone in New York or California thinks we don’t have an elite enough school?
  16. zuckercanyon

    zuckercanyon 1,000+ Posts

    East coast pointy heads? I think vyfan just made my day!
  17. VYFan

    VYFan 2,500+ Posts

    Btw, the university of Georgia was founded in 1785 or so, a hundred years before UT, and is sitting on, so to speak, Atlanta, one of the stronger urban economic engines in the country. It’s not quite fair to just classify it as an SEC school as if football defined it, or as is it were in rural Mississippi.
  18. old65horn

    old65horn 1,000+ Posts

    Probably a hundred or so years before UCLA, Cal Berkley, Cal Davis and Cal San Diego. All of those schools are ranked higher than Georgia. The one thing that all of those schools have in common, they are located in California. Pretty sure they are not dependent on alumni donations for academic standing.

    You might also note that California ranks higher than Texas in economic growth. Again, California would have the 6th best economy in the world if they were a country.
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2017
  19. old65horn

    old65horn 1,000+ Posts

    I am pretty sure that Georgia was founded more than a hundred years before Cal Berkly, UCLA, Cal Irvine, Cal San Diego, Cal Santa Barbara and Cal Riverside. The one thing all those top 10 schools are ranked higher than Texas have in common is that they are in California. The state with the strongest economy in America. Is there a relationship? I doubt that many of those schools rely on Alumni donations to maintain their academic standing so you may be right in throwing in the Atlanta factor. We just have Austin, Houston and Dallas dragging us down?

    This is the US News ranking.
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2017
  20. VYFan

    VYFan 2,500+ Posts

    California is remarkable in many ways; annoying in some others.

    All I meant about UGA was that it is a legitimate University with its own proud history, not just a football school. So, not really relevant to just say it is a “SEC” school.
    • Like Like x 1
  21. old65horn

    old65horn 1,000+ Posts

    [QUOTE="VYFan, post: 1554843, member: So, not really relevant to just say it is a “SEC” school.[/QUOTE]
    Good point. I meant that we used to be ranked ahead of all SEC schools except Vandy, which is private, not public. That is no longer the case, we are 18 and dropping.
  22. joh

    joh 25+ Posts

    What has hurt UT in the “rankings” is based on how the rankings are calculated and weighing of certain criteria. For example, due to the 6-10% rule - 75% of the students get guaranteed admission in other words 100% acceptance rate for 3/4 of the freshman class- so by some calculations it is not very competitive since 3/4 of the class has a 100% acceptance rates = not selective when calculate in this manner.
    • Like Like x 1
  23. old65horn

    old65horn 1,000+ Posts

  24. ViperHorn

    ViperHorn 10,000+ Posts

    Exclusivity must generate points. Thus with 75% of the freshman class gaining admission exclusivity must not be a requirement so minus points.

    If joh has the formula he should share it with us.
  25. joh

    joh 25+ Posts

    I’m not privy to any specific formula other than what I’ve researched regarding rankings from companies like US News & World Report.

    “The statistical indicators that U.S. News uses to measure academic quality fall into seven broad areas: first-year student retention and graduation of students; peer assessment; faculty resources; admissions selectivity; financial resources; alumni giving; and graduation rate performance, which is the difference between the proportion of students expected to graduate and the proportion who do.
    The indicators include both input measures, which reflect the quality of students, faculty and other resources used in education, and outcome measures, such as six-year graduation and first-year student retention rates and graduation rate performance, which signal how well the institution educates its student body.”

    That said my daughter applied and was accepted as an out-of state student. With her grades, scores, and resume she could have been accepted anywhere, including the Ivies, but she only wanted Texas. :bevo:
  26. ViperHorn

    ViperHorn 10,000+ Posts

    Thanks joh. Looks like the shear numbers at Texas play against it in the USN&WR standings. Take out the student performance (or non-performance) categories and Texas measures well against anyone. Not a shock to anyone, but gaining admission to and graduating from Texas is hard.
  27. X Misn Tx

    X Misn Tx 2,500+ Posts

    it is interesting. the "top 7%" is a small window, but it's 100% acceptance for all of those who apply.

    i know from talking to the mccombs honors business program in the last year that they, specifically, turn down valedictorians from the program regularly.

    so if valedictorians from rural texas get a spot in my vaunted liberal arts college, i'm ok with that. Psych Major represent! Eng minor in da hizzy!
  28. ViperHorn

    ViperHorn 10,000+ Posts

    I thin that is the problem. If you take everyone exclusivity cannot be maintained.
  29. SabreHorn

    SabreHorn 5,000+ Posts

    When we were looking at schools for my daughter, the universal response we got when visiting, and after they found out that her mother, brother, grandparents, and I were all Texas grads was, "We make it hard to get into our school, not to get out". That is our school's reputation around the country.

    We got that response at Harvard, Wharton, W&L, UVA, UNC, Duke, Vandy, Wake, Northwestern, Stanford for starters.

    Still, it is not USNWR that is flawed, unless you are into excuses. It is our generic, computer generated admissions policy, while other schools use interviews, essays reviewed by admissions.
  30. steve0

    steve0 < 25 Posts

    I'm not really sure what you all are looking at but this ranking has UT no. 32 in the world, no. 9 among public universities in the U.S. I wouldn't take any of those rankings too seriously, though; there are many different ways to judge colleges.

    AUSTIN, Texas — U.S. News and World Report ranked The University of Texas at Austin No. 32 in the world in its latest ranking of Best Global Universities, marking the fourth time this year a prestigious international group has placed UT Austin among the best international universities.

    The rankings are based on 12 indicators that measure academic research performance and global and regional reputations, according to the publication. Students are encouraged to use the rankings to explore higher education options globally and compare key aspects of schools’ research missions.

    The ranking placed UT Austin No. 9 among public universities in the U.S.

    One other Texas university made the top 100: Rice University at No. 81.

    U.S. News included global subject rankings this year. UT Austin earned top 50 rankings in 11 subjects:

    • Arts & Humanities - No. 21
    • Chemistry - No. 10
    • Computer Science - No. 2
    • Economics and Business - No. 38
    • Engineering - No. 34
    • Geosciences - No. 32
    • Materials Science - No. 32
    • Mathematics - No. 13
    • Physics - No. 34
    • Social Sciences and Public Health - No. 45
    • Space Science - No. 21
    The global rankings focus specifically on schools’ academic research and reputation overall and not their separate undergraduate or graduate programs, according to U.S. News. They rely heavily on metrics such as faculty publications, citations and highly cited papers, drawing on data from Clarivate Analytics InCites, formerly known as the research productivity arm of Thomson Reuters.

    The overall rankings include 1,000 universities in 60 countries.

    UT Austin has been ranked near the top globally in other recent publications, including No. 30 in the world by the Center for World University Rankings, No. 51 in the Academic Ranking of World Universities and No. 49 in the Times Higher Education World University Rankings.

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