BBall Program Needs New Direction

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LikeMike
(1000+ posts)
02/16/15 07:23 PM
BBall Program Needs New Direction

We cannot compete with Baylor nor Iowa State? With our resources we should be winning 5 of every 6 against them. We consistently cannot make more threes than our opponents, in an era went that would win. Our coach pulls most of his players, especially the young ones if they make one mistake. He appears to berate his players court side every time they make any mistake. Who would want to play for such a guy?

Htown77
(1000+ posts)
02/16/15 08:22 PM
Re: BBall Program Needs New Direction


In reply to:
Who would want to play for such a guy?



Kevin Durant, LaMarcus Aldridge, T.J. Ford, recently Myles Turner.... 17 of the 29 players UT has ever put into the NBA...

It may be time for Barnes to go, but Im not sure after a 3 game win streak is the right time to post this. At least wait until a losing streak, or a bad postseason.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. We have to have elite talent to win big. Barnes has brought more elite talent here than anyone ever. He may not be the best coach, but you do not get rid of him unless you can get someone better. I do not know of a better coach that would want to come to an empty arena where no one cares about basketball and recruiting is difficult. (FYI Barnes is not the reason for the empty arena. We went 16-2 at home last year and is was still half empty except for Kansas. That's on the athletic department's overall poor management of basketball.)

We're Texas means one thing in football, baseball and other things. It means next to nothing in basketball. It would take far more than one coaching change or even anything UT could do to change that. It would take a statewide attitude shift on the sport. Did not the entire state of texas miss the NCAA tournament a two years ago? What does that tell you about this state?

Also, I am tired of people acting like 1 final four by barnes is underachieving. It's our only final four since 1947!

Maybe it's time for a change, but stop berating the best basketball coach in school history. This is a very unfortunate truth, but I will be truly surprised if anyone does better in any of our lifetimes. Unlike football and baseball which have strong tradition to fall back on, basketball does not. Whenever Barnes goes, this year or 20 years from now, we will probably go back to not making the tournament every year and producing few successful NBA players.

I would like to point out the really amazing thing about Barnes is that he accomplished more than any other Texas coach in the difficult Big 12 as opposed to the fairly bad (except for arkansas and u of h some seasons) SWC.

Also, the reason for success of Iowa State and Kansas is they are in a basketball crazed midwest. That is not true in the South. Florida and Texas are the exceptions because of their coaches. The far more common situations are the A&M's, Alabama's, Tennessee's, Auburn's, Georgia's, etc who are not good at basketball.

Firing a basketball coach who has made the NCAA tournament in 15 of his 16 seasons would be sooo delusional aggy. Some Texas fans talk about our basketball program like we are some historic powerhouse the same way aggy talks about their football program like they have won a national title since 1939 or finished in the top 5 more than once since 1957.

Barnes is also 60 and will probably retire within the next 5-10 years. Enjoy NCAA appearances and future NBA players while you can. We will be back to a mediocre coach and a completely irrelevant program soon enough.

Htown77
(1000+ posts)
02/16/15 08:28 PM
Re: BBall Program Needs New Direction

I will throw out there that Baylor has been caught cheating multiple times and Larry Brown has already been caught cheating again at the college level at SMU.

Dirty Martin
(1000+ posts)
02/17/15 02:27 AM
Re: BBall Program Needs New Direction

Well said Htown. Agree completely.

 

So a 9 and 9 conference record and getting a one and done recruit will be our goal.

 

^ very premature. We could win or lose all our remaining games. We do not yet know who will return next year. How about we just wait to the end of the season and have this discussion?

 

While I'll agree that we don't need to hit the panic button, I'm tired of losing to teams with inferior talent. This team was predicted to compete for the B12 title and we're staring at a 7th place finish. Unacceptable.

 

See that's thing thing this year. I do not know that anyone other Tech, TCU, and Kansas State has inferior talent in the Big 12. I think our problem is that all the top 7 teams are good. All the top 7 should make the NCAAs. It will be a joke if A&M (who easily lost to Kansas State and Baylor, is not good but is playing worse sec competition) gets in and any of the top 7 of the Big 12 do not. We need to put into perspective that almost every game is against a ranked team.

That being said, we may not need to win them all, but we need to start winning some of these games, and yes we have lost way too many. I will absolutely agree we should AT THE VERY LEAST finish in the top 6 of the big 12.

 

Who's the coach that people want to hire if Rick Barnes is fired?

 

What Htown77 said and Dirty concurred. And this post comes 24 hours after a complete meltdown against OU in Norman. Tell me how a "better than Barnes" coach would have coached Texas in the last 3 minutes of last night's fiasco...
Texas played tough last night and lost.

 

Rick Barnes has done a great deal for the program.... no doubt.

Who believes that we will suddenly figure it out? We have beaten one good team in conference all season.

With our resources it's time to give someone else a chance to build on Rick's foundation.

 

So we are losing to every ranked team which means we arent that good. Not saying RB needs to go, but outside of last year he has underperformed with pretty solid talent the last 6-7 years. Its his job to have players ready to play.

 

I think the team will be better next year with Kerwin and the Davis kid coming in.It really helps when you have guards that can actually score and shoot the ball well that also have good size for the position.

 

what rattfatt said....be careful what we ask for. I watched UNC vs. Duke tonight: incredible atmosphere. Who is certain that a new Texas coach can continue recruiting M. Turner caliber players away from elite programs like these??

 

^^^^ This.

 

I am of mixed thoughts on Rick. There is no doubt he upgraded the program, brought more success than any other coach in UT history; is about to win his 400th game here. But that doesn't mean his best days aren't behind him. It may be time for a new direction, someone that can continue the upgrade and take Texas to greater heights.

Texas was a football STATE until the last 15-20 years. Then the big urban areas started to churn out some of the best players in the country. Rick was able to recruit a fair share, and the occasional big time out of state player. Rick coaches defense. Immediate upgrade! Now the 20 million or so souls in this state, plus three NBA teams helping by winning championships, conspire to elevate the basketball consciousness statewide. There are great players being homegrown in big numbers yearly. This fact does not go unnoticed by the best coaches. If UT wants to have a great BB program to go with a great football program (see ucla, Fla. OSU, Mich. OK. St., ou sometimes, etc) then it could quite easily happen. Dedicate the money to get the coach, and arrange student seating at the arena to maximize home court advantage.

The iowa state coach would be an upgrade here. The Butler and Gonzaga coaches would. There are fine coaches who coach offense and defense all over the country that would love to get the chance to recruit this state, and nationally, from the terrific base that is UT in Austin.

 

See I am of the opinion we should do that FIRST, then give Rick a season to see how it works out. If the man can recruit and make the NCAA tournament nearly every year while there is general mismanagement..... Anyway, if it does not work out, then go find someone else.

I would argue that while the talent is better, that vast majority of high school athletes still prefer football and baseball. Yes, we have some talent now as opposed to little talent, but this state is still football (and baseball to a lesser extent) centered. I do not think pro teams are a good indicator as we have very strong high school baseball and no pro baseball teams at all (I kid). San Antonio, for example, is very into the spurs, but how much basketball talent comes out of San Antonio? Not anywhere near the football or baseball talent that does.

 

I can't argue with this. ^^ I mostly like Rick, and certainly recognize what he's done for UT BB. It just drives me crazy when I see so much offensive ineptitude year after year.

But to be fair, this season was hijacked by the injuries to top players like Taylor, Holmes, and Felix. I wouldn't be surprised, if all stay healthy, to see us make a run deep into the conference tourney, and win a couple of games in the Big Dance. Then again, we could bomb early!! That's what's so maddening!

 

Last seven years including this year:

64.7% win record
163 wins
89 losses
5 of 6 tourneys qualified
5 tourney wins
0-1 in CBI tourney

On average the last seven years Rick wins not quite two of every three games, doesn't win the conference, qualifies for the tourney every year, beats a bad team then loses to a team we are evenly matched with in the second round. All this "success" for $2.4 million a year.

If ya'll are satisfied with those results because we are a football school then so be it. I think we could get the same for half that salary.

 

Who does win this conference other then Kansas? It's like Missouri being mad about not winning the Big 12 in football from 2000-2010. It's tough win the Big 12 in football when Texas and OU are up. It's tough to win the Big 12 in basketball when is Kansas is up.

Barnes, like Brown or Garrido, earned their salary for past success (see the elite 8s and final four). If you are concerned about salaries, Charlie Strong made $5 million (one of the top 5 highest paid coaches in football) to go 6-7 Not criticizing strong (he certainly is building and can earn his salary over the next 3+ years), just pointing out our athletic department is going to throw money around no matter what and you have to pay a lot to get top coaches. Barnes has at least earned his salary with past success.

Rick Barnes, on the other hand, is the 11th highest paid coach in college basketball. All of the top 20 highest paid coaches make $2 million or more. Donovan at Florida makes $4 million (they are having a BAD season right now. Has he lost it? No, it is just hard to consistently win at southern schools). Pitino at Louisville, Self at Kansas and Calipari at Kentucky make $5 million. Izzo at Michigan State also makes $4 million. Steve Alford at UCLA has no final fours and makes $3.4 million. Coach K at Duke makes 9 million!!!!!!! We would have to pay at least $2 million for a competitive coach, and certainly more for a better coach. I doubt we make the tournament every year with a $1 million a year coach.

I just do not agree that Texas basketball can win on its own. Maybe it can if the athletic department gets its act together on that side of things, but right now it needs a great coach. If we can get a better coach, go ahead. I just do not think we are going to get someone better and I do not think we should roll the dice on unproven coaches until we need to do so. Not trying to be rude, but I think delusions about our program seem very aggy.

 

Also, again this is all premature. It is still possible for the team to get it together, overcome the injuries and make a run. It's better to wait and have this discussion after the season if they fail to do so. I agree, things do not look good right now and I am not feeling confident either, but the season is not over yet.

 

Yikes, I don't think Rick is close to the 11th best coach in CB. I'm not at all sure how much we'd have to pay for an upgrade, youthful coach who is getting in the NCAA tourney and winning some. Again, Butler, Gonzaga, Iowa State coaches come to mind. Recruiting this state nowadays from UT Austin is instant cred. Barnes has given the program cred. And an upgrade at head coach could take the program to a higher level, imho.

But again, the team this year has been gravely wounded by three injuries to three key players. Not an excuse, just a fact.

We'll see how things go the rest of the way, and hopefully, goes deep in the tourney, winning more this season than the average Barnes team: 64.7% per volhorn.

If we get an early exit from the B12 and Big Dance, then maybe Rick should consider stepping aside.

 

It would be nice for the team to regain the early season form that had them winning on the road at UCONN and taking a powerful, full strength unlike now, Kentucky team to near the wire. Coach Barnes needs to find a way to get the best mix of success oriented players who make the clutch shots and consistently keep the inexplicable turnovers to a minimum on the court.

 

Htown, You really think we can't have the same mediocre under performing team with a different coach? Who is delusional? Sure we could tank with a change, but how long do we let it go before we try to take the next step? You obviously think we can't get anyone better so I guess it is what it is if that's the truth. You might be right, but I have a hard time accepting that.

Barnes has proven we can recruit and compete at an elite level, but for whatever reason he just doesn't get the teams ready to play night in and night out anymore. Too many hot and cold streaks which is an indicator of coaching not players. Every team has an off night, but we seem to have them every other game.

Here's to hoping they get it together and go on a streak!

 

The first 6 guys I'd approach would be: Bennett (UVA), Few (Gonzaga), Wright ('Nova), Smart (VCU), Marshall (Wich St) or Brad Stevens (Celtics).

Those probably all fall under the "pipe dream" category, but I'd start there. I'm sure there's plenty of other "tier 2" guys we could get that could do just as much as what Barnes has done in the past 5 years. And what difference does it make how many guys like Durant, M.Turner, et al Barnes recruits if he can't get out of the 1st round?

 

Unless John Wooden Jr. is lined up as the next coach, I'm with the camp that says keep Barnes. Has he underperformed? Probably. Is Texas paying him too much? Yes. He can't seem to get over the hump but he has gotten further than any other Texas basketball coach.

 

I really don't feel any way about Barnes if he gets fired or returns next year I'm okay either way. I've always wondered how do you measure success for a basketball program like Texas that's not a blue blood? When those programs don't make it out of the first round you understand they're fan bases being mad. In my opinion if they make the tournament he won't get fired even if he loses in the first round. That's usually how things work.

 

You've got a point there.

 

The bar of making the NCAA tourney is mediocrity. Pretend the tourney only had 32 team qualifiers (like in the past) instead of 68. To get to 32 teams you have to win one game in the tourney. If Rick B was getting to the tourney every year and winning one game (at least) then that would be much more impressive. We have done that in 3 of the last 6 seasons, which is fairly good, but unfortunately we haven't progressed any further. After this season, it will have been 8 years since we got beyond the 2nd round. Barnes is paid a top 10 salary, but his performance is no where near top 10. Rick has made 18 Million or so the last 7 years, and it is a top 10 salary, but have we finished ONE time in the top 10? We are finishing middle of the pack in the Big 12 much less the NCAA.

A top coach that instills a brand of basketball that is a bit more entertaining than the clanging of the poor shooting horns would fill the seats. This idea that we can't attract a top coach is total BS. Money and opportunity talk. We haven't tried for 17 years to get another coach. The fact that so many teams have passed us (Baylor, Iowa St., OU, etc and that we can't compete meaningfully for a Big 12 title) is not acceptable. In the last 7 years we have ended the season ranked twice (16,and 23). Is that top 10 performance? There are probably a 100 coaches that have out performed that record, including many from schools with few resources.

Any long time fan should appreciate Rick Barnes efforts and accomplishments. Rick B built up the program initially, but it has stagnated for too long. UT has been generous and paid handsomely for Rick B. accomplishments, which he did earn. But now it is time for a new chapter. Clearly there are no guarantees, but as a fan I would be energized just to be able to find out the capabilities of a new coach, rather than knowing weaknesses of a current coach that will never be fixed.

Finally, if we don't make the tourney this year, which is becoming highly probable, we won't have made the tourney 2 out of the last 3 years. So, this idea of keeping Rick B. because he makes the tourney every year is DOA in that the current trend doesn't support it.

 

Weaknesses that will never be fixed? The offense was fine and it's improved over the last few games.They didn't lose today because of offense they lost because they couldn't stop ISU.

 

How many excuses does Rick B get? There are too much aggie like sentiment with moral victories because the horns improved (from totally pathetic) to just mediocre. Rick B hasn't adapted. The 3 point shot is EASY in college. You have to recruit to be able to spread the floor. Most every team that beats us does so because they can hit 3's at a good clip, while are percentages tend to suck. Other tams run plays and get some easy buckets at a far higher clip than we do. We played our best game of the season against OU, but they ran the ball like the Spurs and got a number of easy buckets and that was the difference in the game. That ability doesn't just appear, but must be coached. We also not nearly as aggressive as we should be EARLY in the shot clock when you have someone like I. Taylor. There are so many glaring coaching deficiencies it would take to long to list.

 

As I've said before personally I could care less whether he gets fired or not. The fact that the guards aren't consistent perimeter jump shooters you have a point but the 2 guards coming in can do that. Also ou ran a simlpe high ball screen in the middle of the court at the end of the game not very complicated neither was ISU's offense.

 

It is true that ISU hit a high percentage of 3's but they scored their last 10 or 15 points shooting free throws. We scored 77 points against an ISU team that is not a good defensive team. Our offense IS stagnant. Its tough to watch Lammert pass up open jumpers time after time and then force a pass inside that turns the ball over. if we don't have the guys who can make a decent % of 15 foot jumpers then who's fault is that. My guess is its the recruiter's fault. Or maybe the coach who is scheming our offense and decides not to recruit quality shooters. Either way we are in the bottom half of the conference and that is unacceptable.

By the way, Holmes is not right. His legs are heavy; his feet have noticeably slowed since he suffered the concussion; he is not in the flow of the game; he seems lost. I think the medical staff needs to do more testing. MRI, etc.