Cleveland, OH police

So we just had 2 police officers lost in 1 day.

Det. James Skernivitz a 25 year veteran of CPD. He was gunned down sitting a car while working undercover in the gang unit. 3 people have been arrested in connection. 2 juvenile kids and 1 adult. All black. Not 1 "civil rights" organization that is screaming about black men being killed have said 1 word (go figure)



Officer Nick Sabo passed away from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. He posted on social media about the death of Det. Skernivitz and then took his life.



RIP guys!! EOW 9-4-20

 

That is so sad.

Will how is the public opinion of the police there?

 

GREAT! Just as long as your not from East Cleveland (ghetto)

 

They don't even say anything when it's a black officer.

 

Exactly!!

 

RNC needs to run a tribute to the fallen LEO's since January. Put it on a regular rotation with other ads. It could be a powerful message, since BLM is front and center .

Project the obvious. Trump supporters are of the All Lives Matter mindset. Many dems too, but the BLM movement is hitched to Biden. Run the ads, let the voters figure it out

 

These kind of attacks (if proven guilty) should have the death penalty, mandatory

 

One of my best friends.



14 year veteran of the Mentor (OH) PD

He was killed by a kid that was drunk and high. He only got 11.5 years......

 

Sucks Will! Sometimes it really sucks.

 

Just think, some people get offended and protest that flag.

 

GD that makes me mad. Police officers are protecting us but under constant fear of their lives. The Dems support this?

 

Will
We will pay tribute to your friend. What a hero .
Bless him and his family.

 

Dang that is sad. Sorry to see such tragedy.

 

Sorry to hear.

 

And the Virginia legislature is on its way to reducing the penalty for assaulting a police officer in some situations. Link.

The bill says, "Any person charged with committing an offense in violation of this subsection where the degree of culpability is slight, due to such person's diminished physical or mental capacity or pervasived developmental disorder, or if there is no bodily injury, a jury or the court may find the accused not guilty of violating this subsection but guilty of a simple assault or assault and battery in violation of subsection A, punishable as a Class 1 misdemeanor."

So if you're drunk, high, crazy, disabled, or have some kind of developmental disorder, you can get it reduced to a simple assault even if you injure the police officer. If you don't injure the officer, you can get it reduced regardless.

The Virginia Senate has already passed the bill.

 

If a policeman is wrong, then a person needs to fight them. Some people act like police are immaculate morally or should be obeyed in any circumstance. They aren't and they shouldn't.

Each case is going to have to be judged individually. End qualified immunity. Break down police unions. They don't help protect or serve, unless we are talking about a abusive policeman.

 

What does it mean for the policeman to be "wrong?" Does that mean in actual violation of law? Does that mean factually wrong (as in he thinks you did something illegal when you haven't)?

You are correct. The problem is that the officer has a right to investigate a reported crime and to stop and briefly detain a person if he reasonably suspects the person was involved in a punishable crime. If he develops probable cause in the course of that stop, then he has a right to arrest the person, and the person has a duty not to resist. He doesn't have to incriminate himself by talking, but he can't try to get away, fight him, threaten him, etc.

Agree.

I'm a strong skeptic of all public employee unions. However, this isn't entirely true. Police unions might sometimes protect bad apples, because they almost always side with the cop, as teacher unions almost always side with the teacher.

That isn't all they do though. When you've got a cop who's not in the wrong, but he's being ganged up on by powerful people with enormous influence and money (the media, slimy politicians (and therefore police chiefs and prosecutors), dirty "civil rights" activists, and now violent mobs of leftists) looking to ruin him to support a corrupt and fraudulent agenda, sometimes the union is all he has. As much as I don't like public employee unions, if you bust it, he's on his own, and in those situations, that seems pretty unjust and frankly, frightening. In places like Seattle, Portland, and New York City, the police unions are literally the only voices that aren't completely insane.

 

You tell me. What if the police was trying to get cuffs on you and that would mean your life was ruined and you weren't doing anything unethical or immoral?

"Probable cause". The problem is every man is fallible and none should be put in position where there is no real accountability or the citizen has no real expectation of recourse. That isn't always practical, so sometimes a person has to make a judgement about what is best much like the policeman. Always submit isn't the correct direction to the citizen though.

Is there any other way to protect honest cops without protecting guilty ones? Unions don't seem to be the answer.

But I agree. There are evil influences on the other side too. I don't support those who attack cops just because they are part of the "system". I am looking for ways to improve our system without tearing it all down or defending bad actors.

 

I would be polite, do what the police asked of me, and allow things to be figured out at he station.
We had a minor situation in San Antonio last week. A woman called in a sexual assault by a man she knew (an ex) described the accused as a large black man, wearing a green shirt and black shorts.
The police began a routine drive around the area, hoping to perhaps see the man, and, what did they see, jogging down the access road to a highway?
A large black man, in a green shirt, but with white shorts. Police stopped him, and asked him his name.
To me, a simple question. I know you don't technically have to answer that question, but never in a 1000 years would I not. He didn't have ID, which isn't uncommon for people jogging, so the police asked him nicely a few more times and he became more and more frustrated, then a bit aggressive and then started shouting about his rights. "I don't have to answer you, cop!" kind of stuff.
So the police handcuffed him to take him to the station for non-cooperation or some reason, and at that point the guy gets violent. Puts both feet on either side of the police car doors so he can't be pushed in, then turns and kicks both officers in the face and upper body. He starts to scream, "You're chocking me", and, "I can't breath!" as by this time a few people were filming on their phones. The police men's hands were on his back, trying to push his large *** into the squad car, but I guess shouting I can't breath is the new way to score the big bucks.

So, by the time he gets to the station, he has accrued a resisting arrest, and assault of a police officer charges. He is in jail for 2 days, and comes out with a press conference, with 2 attorneys, claiming he had been kept in a freezing cell, naked for 2 days.

My question is this. He is a professional man, not a druggie or some thug. Why didn't he simply give them his name? After he had resisted, the police called the woman and showed her a photo they had taken of the guy before he had gone nuts, and she said it wasn't him. So, if he had given his name in the first place, the policeman could have immediately called the woman, and the man would have been on his way.

So, for all the men here, is it just pride that would make you not answer and not give your name? Is it a declaration of your rights that you would take to this extreme? I am genuinely curious, because I'm not a weenie, but whenever a policeman has asked me a question, given me a ticket, etc. I have always been polite and complied and have never had one issue. Would a white man have acted differently?

In this time when tensions are so high between black and white people, esp black people and police, why wouldn't he have done anything possible to make the encounter no big thing? Especially since, as so many black people are prone to saying these days, "I wake up every morning fearing a policeman will kill me."

 

Yes, very easily resolved and inexplicable as to why he would not answer simple questions. He would have been on his way and now likely faces a litany of charges. Ridiculous.

Only ******** and criminals act that way when approached by police officers.

 

The only time I would fight a cop is if he was trying to end my life and then I would have nothing else to lose. Fighting them usually ends with you getting an *** kicking so it's not worth doing. Even my brother, a criminal in his youth and dumber than a box of rocks, knew this and never resisted arrest.

 

I think the dude in SA orchestrated it to get in the news and say," See all cops are racist"

 

They do press for confessions at the station and many use torture-like tactics to force them. Many people give false confessions just so they can get out of the interrogation. Then you are in a worse situation than before.

I am not saying fighting the cops is a wise decision. Many, even most of the time, it isn't wise. However, the police aren't due our submission if we are innocent and even more so if they are doing something illegal, unethical, or immoral.

 

I can't answer that. You were making the point, so I wondering what you meant. I can offer my own opinion, but I can't know what you meant better than you would.

Getting the cuffs on me isn't what would ruin my life or anyone's life. It's what happens after the cuffs are on that ruins that.

The accountability comes at the courthouse both in the criminal proceeding and a civil action if applicable. Ending qualified immunity would help, but even with it, police departments are successfully sued. (See Adam Loewy.) In fact all sovereign immunity is BS.

Probably not. Unions have their problems, and they're far from perfect. However, until there is some other way to protect officers from the current lunatic left, no way in hell would I bust their unions and leave them defenseless.

 

You're so seldom wrong. . .

The officers were out of line. They can ask his name. That's fine, but unless he's under arrest, he has no obligation to identify himself. Once he refused, they should have backed off, and when they didn't, that put them in the wrong.

Would I have done what the black guy did? Probably not, but my dad would have if the cop had any sort of attitude. And he's whiter than I am, because he's only related to the Sicilian thug element by marriage rather than by blood.