Comey and Mueller

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by Musburger1, Jun 9, 2017.

  1. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    I thought it was brave of them to do it. Usually FOX News folks have a taint. But she works hard, is a good reporter. And they appear to be giving her room to still pursue some of her old storylines. So far, at least.
  2. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    I also wrote bad then that this went all the way to the top, and could someday be a big problem even for the Great One
    Yes, There Could Be Serious Legal Problems if Obama Admin Involved in Illegal Surveillance

    "... If the stories are correct, Obama or his officials might even face prosecution. But, we are still early in all of this and there are a lot of rumors flying around so the key is if the reports are accurate. We just don’t know at this time. The stories currently are three-fold: first, that Obama’s team tried to get a warrant from a regular, Article III federal court on Trump, and was told no by someone along the way (maybe the FBI), as the evidence was that weak or non-existent; second, Obama’s team then tried to circumvent the federal judiciary’s independent role by trying to mislabel the issue one of “foreign agents,” and tried to obtain a warrant from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act “courts”, and were again turned down, when the court saw Trump named (an extremely rare act of FISA court refusal of the government, suggesting the evidence was truly non-existent against Trump); and so, third, Obama circumvented both the regular command of the FBI and the regularly appointed federal courts, by placing the entire case as a FISA case (and apparently under Sally Yates at DOJ) as a “foreign” case, and then omitted Trump’s name from a surveillance warrant submitted to the FISA court, which the FISA court unwittingly granted, which Obama then misused to spy on Trump and many connected to Trump. Are these allegations true? We don’t know yet, but if any part of them are then Obama and/or his officials could face serious trouble.

    Can a President be charged with a crime? Only once out of office. While in office, impeachment remains the exclusive remedy in order to avoid a single judicial branch trying to overturn an election, such as a grand jury in any part of the country could. Once out of office, a President remains immune from civil liability for his duties while President, under a 1982 decision of the United States Supreme Court. However, as the Nixon pardon attests, nothing forecloses a criminal prosecution of the President after his presidency is complete for crimes against the country. Obama, the Constitutional lawyer, should know that...."

    More at the link, including specific statutes
  3. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    I also wrote a little while back that Page should sue
    This finding just made it easier for him
    This conclusion and admission by the DOJ might also affect other cases besides just Page

    " .... Furthemore, Carter Page might have a viable Bivens action against all the people who signed and kept re-signing those multiple FISA applications. It was his 4th Amendment rights which they were knowingly violating, while acting in their official capacities. I might even be willing to donate to a gofundme for that. Looks at those names. Those would be some great depositions. Not to mention, given that we know that these signatories were warned at least 5 separate times that the underlying basis for the FISA application, the Steele Dossier, was unverified and from a politically biased source, Page may have a winner on his hands."

    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020
  4. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    The Govt has begun backing off its sentencing request with regard to Michael Flynn -- worth asking why they did this? Does Sydney Powell have them nervous? She has taken them down before.
    And now Flynn has moved for permission to withdraw his guilty plea.

    Last edited: Jan 30, 2020
  5. Horn6721

    Horn6721 Half of seeming clever is keeping your mouth shut.

    Ok my eyes glaze over on long legal docs.
    How can Flynn withdraw a guilty plea?
    Isn't that like asking which time are you lying?
  6. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    I been giving this advice out for years to anyone who would listen
    And I had FBI friends when I was in DC, had them to my house

  7. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Your initial sense is right, it's not easy. You almost need a fraud on the court and/or prosecutorial misconduct. But that is what actually may exist here.

    And to repeat what Ive written several times above, this attorney has won this kind of case before, somewhat famously. IMO, what she really needs here and what she is after is to be able to create a "full record." Meaning get everything the other side has into the official court record, which is what goes up on appeal. It's a battle to get there -- and they have fought her on everything, every step of the way so far. But recently, they began to wobble a little. Was this a sign they are starting to see they may be in trouble here? If Powell can get everything, she will have a good shot with the appellate court, which is her legal specialty. So, the real fight now is to get all that info from the Govt.
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Weissmann is a bad prosecutor. He should probably be in a prison cell himself. I hope Powell takes him down (again).
  9. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

  10. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    Swamp is still in full effect.
  11. Garmel

    Garmel 2,500+ Posts

    Now these idiots are claiming Barr is abusing his power. The left thinks that if someone does something they don't like he/she must be breaking the law.
    • Funny Funny x 1
  12. LongestHorn

    LongestHorn 1,000+ Posts

    Won’t matter. Judge will sentence years of jail for Stone.

    And POTUS will pardon Stone.
  13. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Everything they dont like is an abuse of power now. Just like everyone who disagrees with them is a Nazi/Fascist/White Supremacist
    • Agree Agree x 2
  14. Garmel

    Garmel 2,500+ Posts

    Pretty much.
  15. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    I think the rest of the country is beginning to finally wake up to the two-tier system of justice in DC. You have FBI agents perjuring themselves to obtain warrants, and they get strong reprimands. Generally Flynn gets his life ruined for a similar charge. Paul Manafort gets a long sentence for FARA charges, while John Podesta walks free for the same facts. Roger Stone getting a long sentence for obstruction and lying while Hillary's people all got immunity for lying and the physical destruction of evidence that was subject to a subpoena. This is the type of bad behavior we complain about from the Chinese Govt. I hate how these career liberals have managed to politicize the DOJ. It needs to end. Hopefully Barr de-politicizes the whole operation.

    At least 3 years late, but Wray finally sort of comes clean
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2020
  16. LongestHorn

    LongestHorn 1,000+ Posts

    Same judge didn’t convict Hillary? Why not? Deep state Dems!

  17. OUBubba

    OUBubba 1,000+ Posts

    Did I hear right that there has been one FISA warrant denied since the court started considering them? Seems like a friendly court. Don't blame the Dem's. That's a systemic problem that goes way back.
  18. LongestHorn

    LongestHorn 1,000+ Posts

  19. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Funny. As explained on day one of this, the FISA procedure was never designed for domestic surveillance. The original cause was to stop international terrorists. We are pretty far from that here, agree?

    As also explained on day one, the reason they went the FISA route to spy on Trump and his campaign is because FISA warrants do not require a showing of probable cause, as is necessary for a normal warrant. Your people knew they could not make that PC showing, so they used the FISC to skirt the demands of the Constitution. This was one political party using the full power and tools of the US intelligence apparatus and FBI to spy on the other political party during a campaign for president. The FISA Court should have extremely reticent to grant this warrant. But they weren't. You want to shrug this off, but that is no longer possible. This is a very big deal whether you like it or not.

    There were 4 applications on Page, each signed by 9 people (not always the same 9). Each signature carried legal weight. They were swearing to the facts alleged in each application. But those fact were not true, were they? Not only that but some of the material was forged! This has already been admitted. A Democrat FBI agent has admitted he altered physical evidence.

    Put it all together and think about just that one point. They went for a FISA because of the much lower legal threshold (no probable cause showing). Yet despite that, they still thought their allegations were so weak they had to lie to the Court to get the warrant. What happened here is pathetic.

    If I were Carter Page, I would file Bivens actions against all the signatories. These good people knowingly violated his rights under the 4th Amendment acting in their official capacities under the color of federal authority. I can tell you from personal experience that a Bivens case like this, which has some real teeth to it, make people in DC soil themselves.
    • Winner Winner x 1
  20. BevoJoe

    BevoJoe 5,000+ Posts

    It's been a long time since I've read up on pleas, not really my area of practice, but I believe the criteria can be found in the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure at sec. 11(d) which provides, for withdrawing a guilty or nolo contendere plea stating;
    "A defendant may withdraw a plea of guilty or nolo contendere:
    (1) before the court accepts the plea, for any reason or no reason; or
    (2) after the court accepts the plea, but before it imposes sentence if:
    (A) the court rejects a plea agreement under Rule 11(c)(5); or
    (B) the defendant can show a fair and just reason for requesting the withdrawal."

    Hope that helps.
  21. Horn6721

    Horn6721 Half of seeming clever is keeping your mouth shut.

    Bevo Joe
    I guess that is fair??
  22. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 1,000+ Posts

    That is like an OU football player saying don’t blame him for stealing the car because the keys were left in it.
    • Funny Funny x 2
  23. BevoJoe

    BevoJoe 5,000+ Posts

    I don't get much into the criminal areas of the law. The only analogy I can offer is say the Feds want to put a guy away for ever, life (and in the Federal system, life means just that...LIFE) but to get the conviction another person implicated, and may or may not have directly participated in the act but could provide valuable testimony to help the Feds get a conviction, is given a choice (a deal) by the Fed prosecutor such that if this person will testify against the target and plead to a lesser offence they will get him a lighter sentence, say five year in the Fed pen. If the deal is unacceptable to the Judge and the Judge says he will only consider a deal only if the guy does say 40 years, then, upon advice of counsel, the accused can reject the guilty plea, plead not guilty and take his chances on acquittal with a jury in open court. It's not a good analogy, and there is a lot of paperwork involved, but the accused has that right.
  24. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    "Buried in IG Report: How an FBI Team in Rome Gave Steele Highly Guarded Secrets"

    "A month before the 2016 presidential election, the FBI met Christopher Steele in Rome and apparently unlawfully shared with the foreign opposition researcher some of the bureau’s most closely held secrets, according to unpublicized disclosures in the recent Justice Department Inspector General report on abuses of federal surveillance powers.

    What’s more, Steele, the former British spy who compiled the “dossier” of conspiracy theories for the Hillary Clinton campaign, was promised $15,000 to attend the briefing by FBI agents eager to maintain his cooperation in their Trump-Russia collusion investigation codenamed Crossfire Hurricane.

    That investigation was so closely guarded that only a handful of top officials and agents at the FBI were allowed to know about it...."

    The illegality involved violations of laws governing the handling of classified material. These writers/researchers do some good work https://www.realclearinvestigations...e_steele_highly_protected_secrets_122394.html
    • WTF? WTF? x 1
  25. Horn6721

    Horn6721 Half of seeming clever is keeping your mouth shut.

    I am trying to undersrand how any FBI agent would think it was ok to do that.
  26. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    They believe Trump is so bad that he justifies bad or even illegal behavior on their part. "He made me do it" - is an excuse as old as time itself.
  27. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Here is the Carlson segment on Stone

  28. Horn6721

    Horn6721 Half of seeming clever is keeping your mouth shut.

    Then there really is too much swamp to drain.
    Too bad the swamp people refuse to see what socialism would do. If they did they could direct all that corruption into making sure a socialist dies nit get elected.
  29. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    The NYT has effectively outed the single source of the CIA’s false Trump-Russia collusion assessment. He is Oleg Smolenkov. The NYT does not state his name his but nonetheless reveals enough information to make him easily identifiable, and they have used his name in the past.

    This helped generate the vaunted "intelligence community assessment" on Russian "interference." How often did we hear about "17 agencies!" But Mueller debunked that entire Collusion narrative. Now it turns out that a big part of the interference claim was thinly sourced.


    What Spy? Kremlin Mocks Aide Recruited by C.I.A. as a Boozy Nobody

    Russia officially declares alleged CIA spy missing
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
  30. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    McCabe is getting off scott-free
    Meanwhile, Stone & Manafort will die in jail

    Nations do not last forever.
    That is the reality.
    When they tell the story of the breakup of the US, having one set of laws for normal people and one set of laws for people in the government club will be part of the story of our downfall. Nations do not survive like this.
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Funny Funny x 1
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020

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