Confessions of a Lukewarm Democrat

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by Crockett, Feb 4, 2020.

  1. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    I look over the candidates coming out of Iowa and I'm not thrilled yet. I'm center-right Democrat, but Joe Biden seems to me less than a great guy and far short of Presidential timbre. First time I ever noticed him running for president -- seems like forever ago -- the press discovered he was delivering a campaign speech previously given by a British candidate, right down to the autobiographical details. Nothing since has given me the impression he's overly honest or above taking advantage of his position. He looks goofy and produces more gaffes that clearly expressed ideas. He's creepy with his complete misunderstanding of personal space and the whitest teeth this side of Susie Orman. Stories are that he swam naked while female Secret Service Agents were on duty and created national security nightmares with his Amtrak trips home to Delaware.

    Sanders, Warren and Buttigieg are better. Sanders is a little too old and too far left, Warren too schoolmarmish and farther left than me and Buttigieg … well let's just say the Mayor of South Bend is young and this far into the campaign I have to check a reference every time I want to correctly pronounce or spell his name.

    The other problems for me: deregulation has gone to far, but it's a helluva lot better for the economy than thoughtless overregulation. I believe global warming is real and manmade or at least man exacerbated, but I don't want Greta Thunberg to define our national response to it. I think immigration policy should be as humane as we can make it. But as a nation we need to protect our borders and place a priority on accepting immigrants that improve our economy, not place a drag on it.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 4, 2020
  2. WorsterMan

    WorsterMan 10,000+ Posts

    Well stated. Dem bench does seem very "challanged" this go-around. Bernie is a for sure losing ticket if the party is foolish enough to choose him.

    A few of my Dem friends seem to think Hillary will come to the rescue.... I don't see this happening. Guess we will see.
     
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  3. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    Hillary is the answer -- to a trivia question.
     
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  4. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    In other words, you're not a Democrat. You're politically homeless.
     
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  5. HornHuskerDad

    HornHuskerDad 5,000+ Posts

    If you're a "center-right" Democrat, you no longer fit the definition of a Democrat - the party has moved so far to the left that they consider you a heretic.
     
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  6. theiioftx

    theiioftx 2,500+ Posts

    You seem independent to me. As far as the DNC, they don’t seem to want you.
     
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  7. ShAArk92

    ShAArk92 1,000+ Posts

    @Crockett

    I'm impressed. While we certainly have differences in political philosophy, I do admire the honesty, integrity, and courage to essentially admit this democrat party has departed hotel reality.
     
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  8. huisache

    huisache 2,500+ Posts

    On the other hand, the other party appears to have checked into a madhouse and seems real proud of it.

    In 1938 the voters of Germany had to chose between the pathetic old hack Franz von Papen with his stale ideas and pathetic party and that other guy. The other guy suffered from PTSD from a few years in the trenches and our alternative choice has suffered from untreated narcissistic personality disorder since birth. I dono what to do
     
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  9. ShAArk92

    ShAArk92 1,000+ Posts

    good grief. enough is never enough is it?

    Crockett's post is about the democrats losing cohesiveness ... and @huisache wants to deflect it into an opportunity to slander Trump.

    Who's "narcissistic?"
     
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  10. NJlonghorn

    NJlonghorn 1,000+ Posts

    Great post, Crockett. There is not a word of it that I disagree with.

    I would add two more candidates to the mix. First is my top choice at the moment -- Amy Klobuchar. While she is a bit liberal for my tastes, she isn't way-out-there crazy, and she's an articulate, level-headed leader who is open to compromise and who presents herself with class and dignity. Unfortunately, her campaign hasn't caught steam and she's running out of time.

    The other is Mike Blumberg. He's even more liberal than Klobuchar, but what the Democrats need more than anything right now is competence. Say what you will about Blumberg's politics, but you can't deny that he has competence coming out of every pore of his body.

    Lighten up, @ShAArk92. The OP was addressing how centrist Democrats aren't happy with the leading candidates, and the discussion naturally turned to the fact that these centrists don't have a home in the modern Democratic party. It is a perfectly natural extension of that thought to say that centrist Democrats don't have a home in the modern Republican party, either. The points by @Crockett and @huisache are two sides of the same coin. And for what it's worth, I completely with @huisache every bit as much as I agree with @Crockett.
     
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  11. Phil Elliott

    Phil Elliott 2,500+ Posts

    Just yank the band-aid off, already, and go Republican. Your views are much closer to GOP than Dem. "Democrat" is just a label that does not fit you anymore. The party left you. Why do you want so bad to be called a "Democrat" that you would want to be associated with their overt hatred of the USA?
     
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  12. horninchicago

    horninchicago 5,000+ Posts

    At least his football posts are usually okay.
     
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  13. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    The problem wasn't that huisache said something derogatory about Trump. There are plenty of things to criticize him about.

    It's that he called him Hitler. SMH. Really? You think the 2020 election is Democrats vs Hitler?
     
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  14. ShAArk92

    ShAArk92 1,000+ Posts

    if you say so, I reckon. Looks more like the "trump derangement syndrome" to me. Address the OP? Naw ... beam off and rationalize by equating Trump to Hitler. Amazing .... well ... really pitiful such as that would be defended.

    yes ... I was hoping to be a little more couched rather than give the murderer and maniacal lunatic that much credence. Clearwater or otherwise! :p
     
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  15. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    He didn't equate Trump to Hitler. He did say the choice was between a bland candidate and a candidate with a worrisome psychological traits.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2020
  16. horninchicago

    horninchicago 5,000+ Posts

    Come on, you do actually see that the comparison was to Hitler, right? Why defend it? It was a dumb *** comment. Just say it.
     
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  17. ShAArk92

    ShAArk92 1,000+ Posts

    then to whom does this paragraph refer?

    If you'd asked me point blank for this guy's name, I'd have whiffed, but the smarty pants presented the comparison to Trump (our alternative choice) from the other side of the 1938 German political situation.

    So again ... perhaps @huisache would like to clarify, then.
     
  18. NJlonghorn

    NJlonghorn 1,000+ Posts

    Fair point. While @huisache didn't exactly call Trump Hitler or even equate the two, he did draw a comparison that was neither fair nor productive to the discussion.

    The point remains that we are left with a choice between one or more blah candidates on one side, and a Pied Piper with a troublesome personality disorder and a huge (the hugest!!) cult-like following on the other side. I used to feel that I could find a home in either party, depending on who the candidate may be in a given cycle. Now, I don't feel at home in either party. I think that was the point @huisache was trying to make.
     
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  19. ShAArk92

    ShAArk92 1,000+ Posts

    that was a pretty clumsy way to make that point if your understanding is correct.

    Hey ... welcome to the no-home party. I've been fed-up with the GOP for a long time. Talk a big game about being conservative and then just continue to grow the gubermint at every bend.

    But ... if we wanna address what the Fed is supposed to be, and HOW it's supposed to be ... there is NO DOUBT, the current DNC/followers are so far off base you can't see the ball field from where they are ... and have been for about 30 years now.

    I appreciate your effort to restate on @huisache behalf.
     
  20. huisache

    huisache 2,500+ Posts

    I plan to vote in the Republican primary for the first time ever this year---they have more good candidates for races other than president

    The argument I presented was an analogy regarding bad alternatives. I used the 1938 elections as an example because it is one that everyone is familiar with.

    The only thing I see that the two men have in common is that both have serious mental issues. One was from war service, the other had bone spurs.

    I do not think our president is a crazed racist with delusionary ideas about national expansion and the glories of military conquest. Or service. The Austrian crossed the border to join up.

    I certainly do not think he hates Jews.
     
  21. ShAArk92

    ShAArk92 1,000+ Posts

    huisache ... I was in 2016 where you appear to be in 2020. Difference is ... 3 years of track record vice my confidence Trump was only running to get her elected.

    I was wrong ... at least in the end. Perhaps I was right in the primaries but then at some point his campaign became sincere and I just missed it. In either case, I was wrong in 2016 voting for a 3rd party guy ... AGAIN!

    Trump isn't my perfect candidate, but he's governed more conservatively overall than any POTUS since Reagan ... arguably more conservatively than even Reagan. So ... I'm voting Trump "early and often" ... with a clear conscience.

    What absolutely must happen is that conservatives are elected to the offices on the ballot this year.

    Thanks for your clarification, but Trump is NOT Hitler ... not at all. Trump is the best POTUS for Israel and the Jews ... ever. Hitler? well. That should be sufficient distinction to discourage any such foolhardy comparisons. They're both caucasian male, I'll grant you THAT.
     
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  22. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Here is Stossel addressing the inequality argument

     
  23. OUBubba

    OUBubba 1,000+ Posts

    I share much of your feelings. Amy K. is my favorite. Sanders and Warren are losers to Trump. Joe can beat him but I don't think he can make it through the primary and he's going to take a beating if he does.

    I wish Deval Patrick would have stayed in. Anyway, we're screwed. :)

    That said I would vote for Tom Herman, Chrissy Sims or Peter Gardere over Trump.
     
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  24. ShAArk92

    ShAArk92 1,000+ Posts

    That's OK Bubba ... we'll make merica great w/o ya.
    ... and understand ... by conservative definition, that means "get the govt to butt out" of most in which it's butted. and light a fire to get it butting what/where it's left its butt is supposed to be.

    My oar is in deep now .... no more splashing around. would sure be a lot simpler if the leftists would just put their oars back in the boat. Easier to carry someone than to overcome their efforts.
     
  25. OUBubba

    OUBubba 1,000+ Posts

    My favorite is how Trump has convinced my friends from high school and my general facebook friends who are white rednecks with paycheck to paycheck jobs that the issues affecting and benefiting billionaires are their issues. Talk about a great hoax.

    One of my great friends from high school is in the commercial real estate development business. He said that the Trump administration is a dream for his field. He claims it is sad how much this administration has made issues benefiting him and Trump one of their top priorities. He feels much more strongly about Trump than do I.
     
  26. Garmel

    Garmel 2,500+ Posts

    Have you noticed most of the wage increases in this economy have been blue collar?
     
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  27. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    If Bernie is the nominee (which looks very possible), would you really vote for him (as opposed to voting third party) over Trump?
     
  28. OUBubba

    OUBubba 1,000+ Posts

    I'm of the opinion that Trump's policies are good for businesses not necessarily wage earners regardless of the color of their collar. This may be simplistic but it feels like we're adding $ to the national debt while also adding $ to the equity markets. We're probably getting a good return on investment dollar to dollar but those equity markets aren't paying off that national debt or it would have stopped going up. I know the GOP stopped caring about the national debt on 1/20/2017 but it hasn't improved.

    My boss is a good example. His wages haven't gone up much under Trump. His 401 has done very well. He judges all political decisions based on that metric.

    Statistics are troubling. Seems like Trump is doing no better to me than a 2nd term Obama. Worse actually. AP FACT CHECK: Trump on wage gains

    Bloomberg agrees. :) Is Trump's Economy Really Booming? Weak Middle Class Gains Pose 2020 Threat

    Sad link re: tarrifs and trade wars: Amid Trump Tariffs, Farm Bankruptcies And Suicides Rise
     
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    Last edited: Feb 6, 2020
  29. OUBubba

    OUBubba 1,000+ Posts

    I'd vote for musberger1. :)
     
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  30. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    He's nuttier than Bernie.
     
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