Coronavirus

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by Clean, Jan 28, 2020.

  1. Duck Dodgers

    Duck Dodgers 1,000+ Posts

    Also, why didn't President Depends protect us from the Delta Variant? It came from overseas - India most likely, so why didn't he keep it from our country, or from spreading?

    That's what the media said about Trump - that somehow, if he'd followed Science!!!, he'd have magically kept us protected from the Wuhan. So why did Slow Joe fail to protect us?
     
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  2. OUBubba

    OUBubba 5,000+ Posts

    Because he thought the vaccine would protect people. And, if the rubes (you played the rube card) would have gotten the vaccine he would have been correct.
     
  3. horninchicago

    horninchicago 10,000+ Posts

    If I don't get vaccinated, <checks notes>, haven't, not going to, what skin is it off your nose? Do you care about me that much? If you or anyone else is vaccinated, why does my status affect you?

    Biden thought...that's cute.
     
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  4. Duck Dodgers

    Duck Dodgers 1,000+ Posts

    So he put all his eggs in the vaccine (which Experts!!! said would take years to develop - thank you President Trump and Operation Warp Speed), and didn't do anything else to protect us from the Delta variant? Sounds pitiful. Why didn't he close the boarders, institute mask mandates, shutdowns - all the things the Experts! said Trump should have done.

    To be honest though, the only thing Slow Joe thinks about is if he's gonna get the chocolate or vanilla pudding cup if he's a good boy and stays awake for his morning briefing, then off to nappy time by 10 am.

    And hey, don't blame me for low vaccine rates - the lowest vaccine rates by ethnic group are those most loyal of Democrat voters, the blacks.
     
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  5. Duck Dodgers

    Duck Dodgers 1,000+ Posts

    It's a hoot to go back and read what the Experts! said, as recounted by the media.

    “You Cannot Do That”: Why Trump’s “Warp Speed” Race for a COVID-19 Vaccine Is Dangerous and Likely to Fail
    The end of the COVID-19 pandemic will come with the development of a safe and effective vaccine, a process experts say will take at least 12 to 18 months.

    Many experts, however, say that it is impossible to reliably demonstrate the safety and efficacy of a drug in such a time frame. Moreover, absent those assurances, it would be unethical to give what is essentially an experimental vaccine to hundreds of millions of people. “You cannot do that,” says Maria Bottazzi, a microbiologist at the Baylor College of Medicine in Houston.

    “We don’t want to put a vaccine in the population that hasn’t been tested for efficacy and toxicity,” says Ana Fernandez-Sesma, a professor of microbiology at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai.

    Despite the strong start, however, the odds are that the vaccine will ultimately fail.

    If its efficacy is still unclear, but no evidence has emerged that it is immediately harmful, will the Trump administration greenlight its use?

    In the past the answer would almost certainly have been no. “The FDA always focus their decision on robust scientific evidence,” says Bottazzi, who believes that the earliest robust data can be available is the end of 2021.

    The dangers of this kind of risk-taking were manifested during the swine flu scare of 1976. The Ford administration rushed to inoculate the public with a vaccine that had been too quickly deployed, and hundreds developed a neurological disorder as a result.

    Ken Frazier, CEO of the pharmaceutical giant Merck, has said that due to the risks of accelerated vaccine development, he is skeptical of even the 12-to-18-month time frame.

    Coronavirus vaccine update: Possible by the end of the year?
    Experts interviewed by ABC warned that developing a vaccine within a 12-month time frame could mean throwing normal scientific standards out the window, but added that a vaccine could be available by the new year if everything goes perfectly.

    And rushing development could mean that important safety issues are missed.
    "Most vaccines have been pretty safe, but there have been problems in the past," said Goepfert.
    And the downside of immunizing millions of people with a rushed, unsafe vaccine could have long-ranging consequences.
    "Vaccines are so, so important for public health," Duprex said. If something goes wrong … the general public will extrapolate that vaccines are unsafe.

    The race for a COVID-19 vaccine: Fast, but fast enough?
    D Maria Elena Bottazzi, co-director of the Texas Children's Hospital Center for Vaccine Development, r. Maria Elena Bottazzi, co-director of the Texas Children's Hospital Center for Vaccine Development, believes a previously stated 12- to 18-month timeline may be too optimistic.

    "My concern is that people are hearing we are going to see things in a year or 18 months," Bottazzi told ABC News. "The reality is: That's probably not going to happen. We may have some real optimism and some safety evidence by then, but not a vaccine."

    House Democrats begin probe into Trump's ‘Warp Speed’ vaccine initiative
    Rep. James Clyburn, D-S.C., who chairs the House Select Subcommittee on Coronavirus, sent letters this week to Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar and two advisers to the Warp Speed effort demanding more information about what Clyburn called an “opaque” process that could “undermine public confidence” in any eventual vaccine.

    Turns out the only one who was right was the President:
    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/03/tru...ronavirus-vaccine-by-the-end-of-the-year.html
    President Donald Trump said on Sunday that he was confident that there will be a coronavirus vaccine by the end of the year, a timeline that’s even speedier than the optimistic projections laid out by his administration’s public health advisors.

    “We are very confident that we are going to have a vaccine at the end of the year, by the end of the year,” Trump said. “We think we are going to have a vaccine by the end of this year, and we are pushing very hard.”
     
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    Last edited: Aug 5, 2021
  6. Duck Dodgers

    Duck Dodgers 1,000+ Posts

    Trump’s optimistic timeline on vaccine outpaces his own experts
    The government’s top infectious disease expert, Dr. Anthony Fauci, has sought to recast the president’s promise of a December vaccine as generally not far from what he has said all along.

    “Remember, go back in time, I was saying in January and February that it would be a year to 18 months,” Fauci said in an interview last week with NBC News. “So January is a year. So it isn't that much off what I had originally said.”

    Fauci Calls Naming of Trump Administration's Operation Warp Speed 'Unfortunate,' Says It Implies 'Reckless Speed'

    'Operation Warp Speed' is fueling vaccine fears, two top vaccine experts worry - CNN
    The federal government's "Operation Warp Speed" vaccine program, with its emphasis on quick production and testing of experimental coronavirus vaccines, is fueling fears already stirred up by vaccine skeptics, two experts said Friday.

    The approach itself is not unreasonable, said Dr. Peter Hotez, dean of the National School of Tropical Medicine and professor of pediatrics and molecular virology and microbiology at Baylor College of Medicine. But the way it's being communicated is scaring people, he told CNN.

    The way they are messaging it is a little frightening because they make a point of saying how quickly it is being done," said Dr. Paul Offit, director of the Vaccine Education Center and professor of pediatrics at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia. "It makes people think there are steps being skipped."

    Trump's new vaccine timeline met with deep skepticism
    Drug industry experts say the new timeline is unrealistic. Many of the vaccine candidates are still in the early stages of development, and proving safety in humans is a time consuming task.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2021
  7. Duck Dodgers

    Duck Dodgers 1,000+ Posts

    https://www.kxxv.com/news/national/...-year-but-his-own-experts-temper-expectations
    Other experts interviewed by ABC News have agreed with Bright, saying that developing a vaccine within a 12-month time frame could mean throwing normal scientific standards out the window, but added that a vaccine could be available by the new year if everything goes perfectly.

    https://wtop.com/coronavirus/2020/0...arp-speed-is-missing-tried-and-true-vaccines/
    Saad Omer, a Yale University infectious disease expert, said Operation Warp Speed needs to widen its portfolio to include the older technologies.

    Trump’s bet on a vaccine could come at a cost
    The danger of going all in on a vaccine may be that President Donald Trump is pinning hopes on a miracle shot while there's considerable reason to believe that the outbreak could stretch on for years.
    But outside health experts say that federal officials need to level with the public, a task complicated by Trump repeatedly vowing that the vaccine is imminent — perhaps arriving before Election Day.

    "The perception of the vaccine politics is damaging," said a former Trump HHS administration official. "If they approve one quickly, people are going to be skeptical."

    "The White House has consistently looked for magic solutions — hydroxychloroquine, remdesivir, now vaccines — but that's not how it works," added virologist Peter Hotez, the dean of the National School of Tropical Medicine at Baylor University. "Our first Operation Warp Speed vaccines may only be partially protective and reduce severity of illness, which is important, but may not prevent disease or interrupt transmission."

    Experts have called on the administration to focus more on this public-health guidance, especially given that vaccine development efforts could easily fall behind their aggressive timeline. "If you think the vaccine is not going to be a solution for the U.S. in the next 18 months, there's still time to get this right," said Rajiv Shah, the president of the Rockefeller Foundation and the head of USAID during the Obama administration, calling for a greater focus on public-health messaging. "There's so much potential to have positive impact right now, but it's not happening."

    “Operation Warp Speed had a rocky start,” said one BARDA official, adding that staff inside the HHS biomedical arm have spent weeks confused over who was “calling the shots” for the new vaccine effort and what it meant for their existing work. The effort was further confused by HHS’ decision to bring in consultants from the Boston Consulting Group.

    Concerns about political pressure over vaccines have been echoed by Elias Zerhouni, the former head of the National Institutes of Health and a finalist for the Operation Warp Speed role that went to Slaoui.

    “It was really obvious to me that what they wanted was a vaccine. That's it. Deliver a vaccine by the end of the year,” Zerhouni told NPR on Monday. “There are political overtones to that, and I said I don't think I'm the right person for that because I don't believe you can do vaccines independent of therapeutics.”

    Borio, the former acting chief FDA scientist, said the vaccine sprint should pay off with significant progress toward an effective shot — if not the full vaccine that Trump has sometimes suggested will be available before the election. "If I had to put money on this, I’d say we have some data and doses at the end of the year for a few of the candidates," she said, singling out a pair of vaccines being developed by Moderna and AstraZeneca.

    But both vaccines rely on what's known as a gene-based approach, which Borio said raised a concern: the newer gene-based vaccines don’t have the same track record of producing potent and durable immune response as traditional protein-based vaccines do.

    The ‘hard slog’ of waiting for a coronavirus vaccine


    "A vaccine is not a given," said David Heymann, a professor of infectious disease epidemiology and distinguished fellow at Chatham House.

    There are hundreds of vaccine candidates in development, but the vast majority will fail. Assuming one is successful, it could take years to manufacture billions of doses for the entire globe.

    With this in mind, “waiting for a vaccine is a poor, poor exit strategy," Heymann argued.

    Coronavirus: Trump says US reopening, 'vaccine or no vaccine'
    Some health experts have remained sceptical about the rapid timeline for development and distribution proposed by the White House.

    "I don't understand how that happens," said Dr Peter Hotez, co-director of the Medicine Coronavirus Vaccine Team at Baylor College, on CNN after Mr Trump's announcement.

    "I don't see a path by which any vaccine is licensed for emergency use or otherwise till the third quarter of 2021," he added.

    Dr Rick Bright, an ousted US vaccines director who has accused the White House of exerting political pressure around coronavirus treatments, testified to Congress on Thursday that such vaccines often take up to a decade to develop.

    Getting the facts right on Operation Warp Speed''


    It should be emphasized that OWS was launched to almost universal skepticism and even scorn. At the time of OWS’s launch in Spring 2020, a strong consensus prevailed among media, public-health experts, consultants, and betting markets that regulatory approval by the end of 2020 and the accelerated delivery of 300 million doses were unrealistic goals. Consider some typical examples:

    The June 6, 2020 issue of the medical journal Lancet opined that “on average, it takes 10 years to develop a vaccine. With the COVID-19 crisis looming, everyone is hoping that this time will be different. Although many infectious disease experts argue … even 18 months for a first vaccine is an incredibly aggressive schedule.

    The federal government’s top COVID advisor, Dr. Anthony Fauci, joined the skeptics: In February 2020 and again in April 2020 he predicted that a year to a year and a half would be required for vaccine approval — versus the half year that was actually required.

    The media echoed general skepticism about OWS in the Spring of 2020. Vanity Fair in its May 28, 2020 edition characterized OWS “as dangerous and likely to fail.” CNN complained that OWS neglected “tried and true” procedures for vaccine development in favor of new and untested methods. A New York Times article dated April 30, 2020 somberly states: “Our record for developing an entirely new vaccine is at least four years — more time than the public or the economy can tolerate social-distancing orders.”
     
  8. Horn2RunAgain

    Horn2RunAgain 2,500+ Posts

    I told my class tonight I was going to miss a particular date for a class this month. When a parent asked why, I mentioned I was having a much needed medical procedure done that morning. Her comment was "and risk getting Delta?!"...

    Gave her an "are you stupid" look, no comment. End of conversation

    Her comment rivals one from one of my students from last week. A couple of siblings are new to the class, the younger really doesn't understand a word of English. Not one. We use the older as a translator when needed. We tried speaking Spanish to the kids, they didn't speak Spanish. So I asked the older kid what country they're from, he says "Brooklyn" and shrugged his shoulders. My wife kept a straight face, I tried... but to no avail
     
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    Last edited: Aug 6, 2021
  9. OUBubba

    OUBubba 5,000+ Posts

    A. I care about YOU.
    B. Unvaccinated people keep the virus afloat and variants running around.
     
  10. OUBubba

    OUBubba 5,000+ Posts

    I said I would be leery of a vaccine that came out just before the election. I think that's reasonable. And, Trump's statements about the vaccine sounded exactly like his statements on many things.
    * I will release my taxes as soon as they're out of audit
    * I have a much better health care plan that the ACA. We're going to release it in two weeks, tops.
    * I won't have time for golf or vacations.
    * Any and all statements on coal. All he did was help coal barons.

    Sadly, had he embraced the vaccine and branded it we would be at a WAY different place than we are now.
     
  11. horninchicago

    horninchicago 10,000+ Posts

    A. Thank you.
    Secondly. But, so what? If you or others are vaccinated, you are safe. Virus gotta virus.

    Sorry, I don't buy that getting vaccinated now or any time will prevent a virus from continuing to mutate.
     
  12. Horns11

    Horns11 10,000+ Posts

    So when we look back at other attempts to limit viral spread or deadliness, do you have any issues with how those worked out? Polio? Smallpox? Heck, chicken pox only killed about 100 people per year when that one was developed.

    Is it because COVID acts more like the flu and flu shots are a crap shoot in any given year? Or the mRNA stuff being newer?
     
  13. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 10,000+ Posts

    the mRNA stuff is not only newer, it is less proven, and evidence in so far shows it to be less effective (potency and duration) than protein based vaccines.
     
  14. OUBubba

    OUBubba 5,000+ Posts

  15. OUBubba

    OUBubba 5,000+ Posts

    Is that real evidence or perception? In my mind the mRNA has proven better than the live virus version. I'm waiting to see how long the antibody hangs around. The facts that more than 90% of those hospitalized (95.7% the last time I checked in Tulsa) are unvaccinated with a vaccination rate is less than 50% AND it skews older. Does that not seem to be a testament to the strength of the vaccine?
     
  16. OUBubba

    OUBubba 5,000+ Posts

    This is definitely Texas gonna Texas...
     
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  17. humahuma

    humahuma 1,000+ Posts

    Because Dems lie to try to control the story.
     
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  18. horninchicago

    horninchicago 10,000+ Posts

    Try to convince me that this virus has been deadly in terms of having more that an about 1% death rate, and get back to me.

    So, again, why are people who are vaccinated concerned with what other people do?
     
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  19. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 10,000+ Posts

    A statement from Luciana Borio who is one of Biden's Covid19 advisors:

    Borio, the former acting chief FDA scientist, said the vaccine sprint should pay off with significant progress toward an effective shot — if not the full vaccine that Trump has sometimes suggested will be available before the election. "If I had to put money on this, I’d say we have some data and doses at the end of the year for a few of the candidates," she said, singling out a pair of vaccines being developed by Moderna and AstraZeneca.

    But both vaccines rely on what's known as a gene-based approach, which Borio said raised a concern: the newer gene-based vaccines don’t have the same track record of producing potent and durable immune response as traditional protein-based vaccines do.
     
  20. nashhorn

    nashhorn 5,000+ Posts

    Bubba, do you have any stats on those having had Covid and reinfection rates? I see too many conflicting opinions, from immunity of 6 months to ‘maybe’ a year. Then some will say immunity is more effective than the vaccine to - no it’s less. The political contamination of this is disgusting.
    It really is distressing because an 11 month old should not have needed hospitalization, my 6 month old granddaughter had both parents test positive and she had two days of irritable status and that was it. Son had 3-4 days of yuck feeling (tired mainly) and wife had longer, 6 days or so but fully recovered now. Interestingly he tested positive 10 days after onset and she still tests positive after 2 weeks but this is one of the home test kits so there is that. He tested neg after 2 weeks.
     
  21. Horns11

    Horns11 10,000+ Posts

    So because "viruses gonna virus," a 1% fatality rate is acceptable? Polio killed way fewer than that in its heyday, yet the contributions to eradicate it are still seen as a standard bearer in the quest to develop vaccines. Do you have a problem with getting vaccinated for polio?
     
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  22. horninchicago

    horninchicago 10,000+ Posts

    Edit: Eh, who cares, not going to bother responding.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2021
  23. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 10,000+ Posts

    Polio crippled people at a very high rate. That justified the work to eradicate it, not the death toll. It is extremely disingenuous to base any argument on comparative death rates between Covid and polio.
     
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  24. 4th_floor

    4th_floor Dude, where's my laptop?

    Your story says 30 children are hospitalized in the pediactric hospital in Houston with Covid. 30. Since the Houston metro area has about 6.4 million people, I guess 30 is a lot. Sooner math?
     
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  25. OUBubba

    OUBubba 5,000+ Posts

  26. OUBubba

    OUBubba 5,000+ Posts

    A. Houston only has one hospital? Cool.
    B. Ask their parents.
     
  27. Horn2RunAgain

    Horn2RunAgain 2,500+ Posts

    I thought Houston was supposed to be wiped off the map last winter by the wuhan virus. So delta is the closer now?

    The boy who cried wolf is at it again
     
  28. OUBubba

    OUBubba 5,000+ Posts

    I had it and my wife had it in late October. The first day we were both on steroids at home together and was rough. :) We had a 5 year old that we gave up trying to keep distance from. He never got it. We even had him tested for the antibody. That said, delta is a lot more virulent and transmissible and apparently is attacking pediatric patients. I'd seen figures that from 99% to 95% of hospitalized patients are unvaccinated. Then the Tulsa World ran that story. I expect that immunity is waning to some extent AND these vaccines were only 70% effective against the delta variant. I would expect that 95% number to fall down to less than 90%. We had two vaccinated staff members test positive. They were both barely sick.

    The average age of hospitalizations in Florida was 45. That seems young as the population of Florida does not "skew younger".
     
  29. 4th_floor

    4th_floor Dude, where's my laptop?

    A. Houston has a number of pediatric hospitals, but only one county hospital. But the story didn't say the county hospital (where the illegals are taken and those without insurance) was full of Covid patients. The county hospital will hold a lot more than 30 patients. So it figures that there are other illnesses and injuries taking up hospital beds. In fact, the story says there is surge in other respiratory virus illnesses in Houston at present. But the headline implies that it is scary Covid that is filling the hospital.
    B. I'll bet most of the parents no habla ingles. So it wouldn't do me much good to ask them.
     
  30. nashhorn

    nashhorn 5,000+ Posts

    So I guess you have no meaningful stats on those infected getting reinfected?
     
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