Dumb Political Correctness

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by Mr. Deez, Feb 8, 2012.

  1. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    The choices we have as leaders are significantly problematic. But those who consider aborting a viable baby to be murder will stomach Trump over a Hillary Clinton who arrogantly says a 3rd trimester baby has no rights. Those who wish the borders to be secured and not opened by virtue of sanctuary cities, no wall, the abolishment of ICE, benefits and amnesty as a package deal will stomach Trump. Those who are against reparations and student loan debt forgiveness will stomach Trump. Those who are strict constructionists and trust a jurist who say's no versus one who finds a law where none exists in writing will stomach Trump.

    These types of value differences preceded and will survive Trump's tenure. That is why they vote for Trump.
     
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  2. Garmel

    Garmel 2,500+ Posts

    A quick synopsis of what Bystander is saying when it comes to voting:

    Christian man with faults > People who think 3rd trimester babies aren't human life
     
  3. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    Pretty much. Even if he's a charlatan and a false Christian, they still will vote for him because an insincere but effective leader nonetheless is the same as a sincere zealot pushing the exact same policies. It is a SECULAR remedy for their Christian beliefs. Render unto Caesar.

    That's just my take on the psychological forces at play.
     
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  4. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    Trump doesn't attack and threaten Christians. All the Democrats do.

    Ballgame.
     
  5. mchammer

    mchammer 5,000+ Posts

    Trump has defended religious freedom while Obama sued the little sisters of the poor
     
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  6. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    But they will open borders, create sanctuary cities, abolish ICE, give benefits and amnesty to homophobic, misogynistic Catholics from South of the border along with shrilling attacking Trump over his attempts to control immigration from select countries (but not every Muslim/Sharia Law country) even though these countries are exporting fundamentalist religious zealots who are homophobic and misogynistic. They hypocrisy is incredible.
     
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  7. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    I have no problem with y'all embracing hypocrisy. Just don't point at others cognitive dissonance while not admitting your own. You've made a deal, one the bible specifically says not to do, but as long as you are ok with it who am I to judge. We all have our inconsistencies.
     
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  8. mchammer

    mchammer 5,000+ Posts

    Articles were written for years before Trump how the traditional blue model vs red model was not going to continue forever and that it was the blue model that was likely to fail first. Like the Never Trumpers in the GOP, you are just bitter you didn’t get there first.
     
  9. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    My view of the Liberal vision is this: the establishment by any means necessary of a collective progressive cultural mind that is wholly feminist, secular/atheist, green, tolerant and politically correct. In theory, the way to achieve this collective mind-set is to brain-wash children, intimidate current inhabitants of the country by use of virtue signaling fascism and controlling the borders by allowing only those from progressive cultures to enter the country. It is obvious to me that the first two planks of this three-legged vision quest are operational while the third leg is not favored as the immigrants that do not meet the progressive standard are being waved over because they are the tools for power acquisition in two ways: 1) Increase the population of California and New York in order to alter the current allocation of electoral college votes and 2) ensuring they vote Democrat by ensuring access to the largesse of the Liberal Industrial Patronage Complex.
     
  10. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    There is no way a person who believes abortion is murder would embrace Hillary Clinton. There is no way a Conservative would ever want to see another Sotomayor on the Supreme Court. These are just two examples of why they must vote for Trump.

    And yes, it is hypocrisy in the sense that they are supporting such a man. The alternative is much worse.

    At least for those who are right-wingers.

    George Bush was savagely attacked by the Left. I remember it well. He was the polar opposite of Trump in many ways and a man who is apparently loved by the Obama's. While in office the Liberals wanted to hang him.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 16, 2020
  11. horninchicago

    horninchicago 5,000+ Posts

    And if his story had ben true and the white, Trump loving MAGA slack jawed hillbilly, racist SOBs who did it were indicted, it would also get no coverage I'm sure.
     
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  12. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    If the Smollett story had been real or even not flagrantly false, it would be like the OJ Simpson trial. It would be the defining story of the year.
     
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  13. horninchicago

    horninchicago 5,000+ Posts

    This is why Trump is correct when he says they are the enemy of the people. Not the local reporter telling you about the daily traffic snafus, but this type of blatant dishonesty and, like the CPL thing, never admitting they were wrong.
     
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  14. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    If one leader accuses
    And the other kills
    Is it God's will?
    Only God can say

    To whom did God speak?
    To Caesar or to you?
    Whatever might be true
    Only God can say

    The survival of a race
    Or the fear of men
    Do either transcend sin?
    Only God can say

    If a patriotic man kills
    And a nation honors him
    Can they all be forgiven?
    Only God can say

    Can a man be of God's will
    Though you know in his heart
    There is no light only dark
    Only God can say

    One man points a finger
    The other says hypocrite
    Who can make either admit?
    Only God can say
     
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  15. HornHuskerDad

    HornHuskerDad 5,000+ Posts

    Bystander, you have unfortunately nailed it. And what's worse is that a lot of young folks seem to be buying into it. Hope us old guys turn out en masse on election day - we need to vote in order to save the country.
     
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  16. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    Each point has it's theoretical worth. EN MASSE it has become an uncompromising movement destructive to the unity of our nation and free thought. For the in the former one must acquiesce to the wishes of another or face peril and in the latter, the assumed inerrancy of the former manifests itself in obedience forced by power and not opinion protected by the bill of rights.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 16, 2020
  17. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    That's fine, but it's a shame that far too many old guys didn't show up in their own homes to teach their kids not to be receptive to this crap. Young people should have better judgment than they do, but sound judgment especially at a young age comes from the previous generation instilling it. It doesn't come naturally.

    Most young people have been told relentlessly by their teachers, pop culture, and college professors that these screwed up values were great and that truly decent, traditional values were crap. Their parents were often apathetic about it or checked out. What are they supposed to believe? Fortunately for me, my dad was there to say, "Deez, did you hear what that guy just said? He's full of crap, and here's why." We needed more of that and less of parents living at their offices and letting the government schools raise their kids.
     
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  18. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    I've talked to my son about politics and what the politicians are feeding us. He has definitely been turned off
    For better or for worse, I've tried to foster an open mind in my children. I try to point out where I disagree with politicians (on both sides) and why. I talk to them about my Father's philosophical political views. I've talked to them about being kind to others in general but that its tricky when it comes to being kind and it involves the government being kind on your behalf out of your tax dollars. I have tried to talk about not accepting words at face value and doing your homework. I've talked about how many meme's are actually untrue or satire. I've talked about how they look white and that nobody really gives a damn about their personal struggles. I've talked to them about not having anything to be ashamed of because they are white and that they don't owe anybody anything just because they are white. I've talked to them about personal responsibility and consequences. I've talked to them about having the strength of mind to listen to an opinion, not allowing emotion to become logic (though emotion does rightfully drive many things in life because we are emotional beings and without it we might not feel the empathy needed to protect others) and how an intelligent human being can have a civil conversation that involves disagreement. I've talked to them about understanding everyone's experience is different and it is human nature to be driven towards certain points of view because of those experiences. I've talked to them about empathy and dwelling on why people act the way they do so they are not surprised by another person's opinion or the force behind it. I've talked to them about how politicians prey on our emotions and hang-ups. I've talked to them about how politicians act like our tax dollars are an entitlement for powerful people to use for their own personal gain and how they act like our tax dollars are a bottomless well.

    And I've talked to them about taking care of their own business without excuses because in the end, you can't eat excuses, you can only hold yourself back.
     
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  19. Horn6721

    Horn6721 Half of seeming clever is keeping your mouth shut.

    By
    A great blueprint .
    This is one of the best, " I've talked to them about being kind to others in general but that its tricky when it comes to being kind and it involves the government being kind on your behalf out of your tax dollars. "
     
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  20. I35

    I35 5,000+ Posts

    Exactly. They have been using bully tactics by the left all the way back to Reagan when they don’t get their way. But they were at least civil about losing an election back then. “What we’ve got here is a failure to communicate” (Cool Hand Luke). This generation are the ones that are very disrespectful to everyone including their own parents. They’ve never heard the sound of leather sliding out of the belt loops from their parents and got an old fashion a$$ whipping in their entire life. This is what we get now from that lack of communication that use to be loud and clear.
     
  21. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    The government wants it that way and we have done nothing to keep it from happening.

    I am guilty of this too, at least the part about letting government schools teach my kids. They don't raise them, but government schools dominate the education industry for a reason. I would home school or send them to private school but those are very difficult options compared to the ease of public school and all the resources they have.
     
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  22. Statalyzer

    Statalyzer 10,000+ Posts

    "Equal" does not mean "identical".

    Yep. A good politician can easily figure out that the religious members of the right have litmus tests that are very susceptible to fawning over anyone with an R by the name and who claims to believe in some of their principles.

    "Paris is well worth a mass."
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
  23. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    Had to look that one up. It's an apt analogy or reference.
     
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  24. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    Okay. So what does it mean?

    I was referring to the ideas broadly. They are incongruent. What caveats will you add to "equal" to get it to also apply to "diversity"?
     
  25. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    I love virtually everything you said, but I'm pulling this quote for further discussion. I want Deez, Jr. to have an open mind in general, but I'll admit that I don't want his mind open on everything.

    I'm always outwardly respectful of other people and their beliefs and lifestyles. For example, as much as I detest this gender fad (and it is a fad and a stupid one), I wouldn't intentionally call a "trans-woman" a man to his face. I wouldn't tell a non-Christian that he's going to hell. (To be clear, I will not deny my faith, and if pressed or asked explicitly, I will say yes. However, I won't say it unprovoked.) Why not? Because it's rude and counterproductive. However, that treatment is for the outside world.

    I have different responsibilities in my own home. It's my job to teach Deez, Jr. the truth and solid values, even if it would be rude to do so in public. We're a Christian home. We go to church. We pray and read the Bible. We believe that a marriage is a lifetime, monogamous commitment between a man and a woman, ordained by God for the purpose of building families. We don't believe that putting on a dress and wearing makeup makes you woman or that having short hair and wearing pants makes you man, even if you're delusional enough to think otherwise. We're Americans, and we believe in the principles that were written into the US Constitution and the Declaration of Independence and think the fact that it is written rather than pulled out of some judge's *** makes a difference. To be perfectly honest, I don't want his mind open to some other faith, national loyalty, values, or lifestyle. If he happens to choose something else as an adult, I'll love him just the same, but it'll be with my fervent and explicit disapproval. That doesn't mean I'll hassle him about it, because that won't help, but he will know where I stand and why.

    Of course, this begs the question of if this stuff is so good, then why be so lopsided and arguably even unfair in my approach? Why not let him see Christianity and Americanism on the merits and choose it and its lifestyle without influence as many passive, candy-*** parents nowadays do (which is how we got Millennials)? The reason why is that I know that what comes at him in school and in the popular culture will not afford that same courtesy. Our faith and values are going to be crapped on at school and in the popular culture as the "progressive" Left tries to fill his mind with their garbage. He's going to be told to reject that stuff and substitute it with an unquestioning loyalty and acceptance of government and to global citizenship. That was true when I was in school, and it's far more true now. That crap will come up when he gets older, and when it does, I'm going to slap it down very hard and explain to him the corrupt and destructive agendas behind it. He's taught to be respectful to his teachers at all times, but he will also be taught that if what his teacher says conflicts with what he's taught at home, he should and must reject it.

    And I get it. That's harsh and seems out of character for me. However, like I've said before, it's all about the roles that we play in certain situations. Same thing applied professionally. There are positions I took on things as a lawyer that I wouldn't take or accept as a judge because my role was different. A lawyer is there to zealously pursue the interests of his client. A judges is there to zealously apply the law as it's written. Likewise, my role as a respectful and open minded adult in public is different from my role as a father.
     
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  26. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    I've called Liberals anarchists but someone said they are really statists. I call them anarchists because if you try to impute kindness into our laws at the absolute logical conclusion, then you eliminate all processes and thought of a financial system that has limits set in order to foster personal responsibility and raising as many boats as possible. To have a zero tolerance mentality that we should help everyone lowers the boats in my opinion BUT IT FEELS AS IF THEY ARE BEING RAISED because IT FEELS LIKE YOU ARE HELPING EVERYONE.
     
  27. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

  28. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    I do fully understand that an open-mind is a slippery slope. Implicit in that comment is my definition of an open-mind:

    1) Not indulging your base emotional instincts
    2) Taking your time to confirm the information
    3) Don't force a reconciliation to a desired truth that you currently believe
    4) Do not be afraid of the truth no matter where it lands
    5) Be curious
    6) Do not be rigid by understanding your belief may be too literal
    7) Faith is a choice at some point when you cannot prove it scientifically.
    8) Understand your place of birth and parental beliefs may have greatly impacted what you believe to be true
    9) Empathy is a great equalizer
    10) Kindness in manner; never stubborn or defensive; always willing to listen; do not judge if you see no harm being done to others; understand that what is your truth may be in fact your hang-up

    I just typed that up off the top of my head. I did not provide a list such as this to my children. I think they see where I'm coming from when we speak.

    As far as Christianity goes, my children and I are being oppressed by their mother who unfortunately is mentally ill. We don't know what happened to her. Long story short, I divorced her and she appealed all the way to SCOTUS on the grounds that the no-fault divorce laws of Texas infringed upon her religious freedom; i.e. a blood covenant made with me to be bound for life. She lost her appeals and is now telling everyone that we are still legally married. I've had to send her a cease and desist letter from my attorney and she responded with an FU couched in biblical rhetoric the likes of which no one has ever seen.

    My girlfriend thinks that my children and I are suffering some level of PTSD because of this situation which has plagued us for a very long time. I am only telling you this because it has greatly impacted our faith. We are TRIGGERED (and I mean it) anytime we hear someone lead off with, "Jesus is my Lord and Savior." We want to run away.

    But are we failing in our beliefs because of our trauma? Maybe so. We are trying to look at it as her failure and not the failure of Christianity. But the point is that one's experiences can greatly impact their emotions and their point of view. So if you are reading this, you have a point of view about my situation (and I'm telling you the absolute truth) and I have a point of view.

    How do we define an open mind now? I suppose one would understand why I have a problem with aggressive evangelical Christianity. I suppose one would now understand why I call myself a Democrat because the evangelical wing of the Republican Party is very distressing to me because I've faced the extreme end of it first hand. So you might conclude, I don't blame the guy for feeling the way he does. But it doesn't mean abortion should be legal either just because of my troubles.

    In my view, that discussion can be secular because even wild-eyed Christian hating atheists agree that, "Thou Shalt Not Kill."

    But if I'm wrong about Jesus (meaning the Bible is literally true) and my ex-wife is correct about the blood covenant, then am I going to burn in hell? I haven't rejected Christ but like I told her former pastor (who has been a great comfort to me as he has tried to counsel her to let me go), "I'll never step foot into a church again except for a wedding or a funeral."

    So do I have an open mind or not? I don't know. But I am open to others who have problems with faith, religion and the manner of true believers.

    I. Get. It.

    I don't think you're like that. I just think you're sharing your personal beliefs without being preachy or aggressive and I appreciate someone who can say what they believe without being oppressive.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 18, 2020
  29. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    So should we write-in the most Christian we can find (assuming "we" are Christians)? I would write-in the father of my first wife. He's a retired lineman for Southwestern Bell. He'd drive over to help you in a hailstorm no matter who you are. He was humble. He always had a good word and a smile for everyone.

    Or should we vote in a secular manner because our Conservatism should honor the separation of church and state meaning only a Conservative atheist will do?

    But if we vote for people like my father in law then it would open the door to the likes of Beto, AOC, Kamala, Warren, Sanders et al... I suppose faith should be strong enough to believe that no matter what these arrogant political charlatans do, God will still bring us home.

    I guess that should be good enough...
     
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  30. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts


    From ESPN:

    "In November, Huff posted a tweet containing a picture of him holding a shooting target with holes. The caption on the post said in part that he was "getting my boys trained up on how to use a gun in the unlikely event @BernieSanders beats @realDonaldTrump in 2020."

    In January, he posted a since-deleted tweet about kidnapping Iranian women so "we can bring them back here as they fan us and feed us grapes." He later tweeted that his post was a joke."
     

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