Evolution and God

Discussion in 'Quackenbush's' started by OldHippie, Aug 30, 2010.

  1. buckhorn

    buckhorn 1,000+ Posts


     
  2. Coelacanth

    Coelacanth Guest

    buckhorn,

     
  3. Dionysus

    Dionysus Cocky + Relaxed Admin


     
  4. buckhorn

    buckhorn 1,000+ Posts


     
  5. Coelacanth

    Coelacanth Guest

    buckhorn,

     
  6. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    Dionysius,
    I have taken a great amount of time looking at the Bible. Some of that has to do with the culture I grew up in. Some. I have looked at the other relgions of the world. Not all of them. I have read up on Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, a little about Buddhism, a little about Mormonism, and some about pagan religion in general. To be honest I have not spent as much time on those as I have Chrisianity. Part of that is due to the availability of time or the holy books themselves. I have taken a class which overviewed them in addition to some of the philosophies such as nihilism and existentialis. While I haven't spent an equal amount of time on each, I have given each serious consideration. At the end of the day nothing I have studied has compelled me like the Christian Bible. Maybe I have not given Hinduism or Islam a fair try but I know the message and I have read at least a significat portion of their holy book. Nothing compelled me to dig deeper than Christianity. That is all I can say today. Maybe that will change. I don't rule out reading more at times about other religions. I am interested to knowwhat they teach and their description of who God is.

    You comment about bias I think is off. Everyone has bias. Everyone has presuppositons which proceed any religious study that they do. Some bias leads you to believe in some doctrine. Some bias leads you to disbelieve in some doctrine. The fundamentalist and the atheist are no different in that regard. Neither group can claim that their pursuit for truth is unaffected by bias. If you can't admit that, then I see how your bias affects you.
     
  7. buckhorn

    buckhorn 1,000+ Posts


     
  8. Dionysus

    Dionysus Cocky + Relaxed Admin


     
  9. Coelacanth

    Coelacanth Guest

    buckhorn,

     
  10. buckhorn

    buckhorn 1,000+ Posts


     
  11. Coelacanth

    Coelacanth Guest

    Let me see if I can bottom line it: Would you require a direct, physical encounter with God in order to believe that he existed?
     
  12. buckhorn

    buckhorn 1,000+ Posts


     
  13. Coelacanth

    Coelacanth Guest


     
  14. buckhorn

    buckhorn 1,000+ Posts

    I don't believe he walked on water.

    I don't believe that he came back from death.

    Those are tales. I don't believe any of the fantastical religious tales of yore. I don't think there was a Prometheus, though I get the desire to put things in those terms. I don't believe that Jesus was the son of god, and extension of god, god on earth, etc.

    I have no reason to think there is a god.

    What religion does not claim extraordinary feats and properties to their god? Are their religions wherein god does not show up in some earthly form and provide light and guidance to humans? Campfire tales. That's how it strikes me. Very human, not particularly divine. Does not seem right beyond that. Gut says no, mind says no, as well. Tough combo to ignore. Don't need it.
     
  15. Coelacanth

    Coelacanth Guest


     
  16. GT WT

    GT WT 1,000+ Posts

    Coelacanth, In the 4th Century there were scores of religions vying for the hearts and minds of the Roman Empire. Christianity won out for many reasons - theological, political, et al. For the sake of argument, if a different religion had won Constantine's favor - say the worship of Mithras - would you now be a convinced believer in this different Faith?

    My point, however, is that the religion we each adhere to is, at least in part, historical and cultural accident. Our beliefs are due to a complex chain of historical continguencies - not to the veracity of ancient texts.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    Believing in Jesus Christ is never a function of growing up in a "christian" culture or society. Going to church does not make you a Christian. There is nothing you can point to in the natural world and say that is what made he or she or these people Christian. Becoming a Christian or a believer in the God of the Bible has never been a historical accident.

    Biblically, you are only truly a follower of Jesus if you have been supernaturally born from above. Your soul has to be done away with and remade. God has to spiritually raise you from the dead.

    Look at Abraham who came to faith in the God of the Bible but was first a pagan. Same with Moses. He grew up wealthy and pagan in Egypt. Paul fought against Jesus killing his followers until Jesus came to him. When any person becomes a believer in the Bible whether they are from Asia, Europe, Africa, or the USA it is due to supernatural circumstances.

    There are many people all over the world who go to church who take part in some kind of "christian" culture but are not believers in Jesus.
     
  18. Perham1

    Perham1 2,500+ Posts

    Believing in Jesus Christ is never a function of growing up in a "christian" culture or society.

    What? Of course it can be a function of that. That is truly a bizarre statement.
     
  19. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    Yeah. But it's not. It just isn't.
     
  20. Perham1

    Perham1 2,500+ Posts

    You're just not making any sense at the moment.

    Perhaps you don't realize what you wrote (I hope). If you truly don't understand the significance of what you wrote then you lack any sense or understanding of religion as a cultural or societal force.

    Your statement is, frankly, rather embarrasing. You can do better than that.
     
  21. buckhorn

    buckhorn 1,000+ Posts


     
  22. Dionysus

    Dionysus Cocky + Relaxed Admin

    In reply to:


     
  23. Perham1

    Perham1 2,500+ Posts

    Perhaps you are unwilling to consider the extraordinary.

    Is that some kind of CS Lewis thing?

    Not very convincing even back when he played that card. Or whoever did.
     
  24. Perham1

    Perham1 2,500+ Posts

    Biblically, you are only truly a follower of Jesus if you have been supernaturally born from above. Your soul has to be done away with and remade. God has to spiritually raise you from the dead.

    Part of the difficulty here is that we have people speaking for Christianity as if their beliefs hold for all Christian groups. That is not the case.

    While there are some sects who insist on being "born again" (which is what the above poster seems to be saying) not all sects insist on that. Nor do all denominations state that that is the only way to be a true follower of Jesus.

    Monahorns views seem to be more fundamentalist in nature. Those are decidedly not the views held by all Christian groups. There needn't be some charismatic event, some overt manifestation by the Holy Spirit. All this supernatural talk is unfortunate, imo. It diminishes and detracts from religion.
     
  25. dallastx

    dallastx 100+ Posts

    To loosely quote Bart Simpson, " I didn't think it was humanly possible, but religion sucks and blows at the same time".
     
  26. Dionysus

    Dionysus Cocky + Relaxed Admin

    Monahorns is Sarah Palin. Coelacanth is Billy Graham with a thesaurus.
     
  27. buckhorn

    buckhorn 1,000+ Posts


     
  28. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    Any Christian who does not agree with the words of Christ is not any kind of Christian.

    John 3
    "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." 4Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?" 5Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

    My only endeavor is to understand what the Bible itself says, not what denominations say. If all we had was their words we would all be confused. I think this passage is very easy to interpret. There should be no confusion. I am not saying there is an overt or external manifestation of the Holy Spirit. The text never requires that. But the Scripture does require supernatural birth.

    I fully understand what I said. Culture and society may influence a person to sit in a church on Sunday. But that can't save you, which means you are not Christian. There are many people who became Christian who did not grow up in a "christian" culture. The first several hundred years that could be said for every Christian. At the same time, even though Europe and the US are considered "christian" a high percentage of the people living within them are not. That can be seen by comparing their lives to the standard of belief and lifestyle in the Bible.
     
  29. Coelacanth

    Coelacanth Guest

    buckhorn,

     
  30. buckhorn

    buckhorn 1,000+ Posts


     

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