JohnnyM, there was a time in my life when I did live as if God didn't exist. It was depressing. That doesn't prove he exists. Still, I'm happier thinking He does. So, I think I will. Someone once said that coincidence is God's way of performing miracles anonymously. If that implies that He is coy, OK. In human relationships coy is sometimes considered attractive. Maybe that's what He, or She, is going for. I certainly wouldn't pretend to know for sure, but I do believe. It's not about proof. As the study implies, it's about belief. I believe the power is in a being greater then I. If the power is really just in my belief, it's still power. If that's naive, I'm ok with that. God bless you all.
Monahorn, do you believe the spirit speaks to each individual in the language they need, as in at the tower? If so, then one man being born of the spirit may be due to his Christian upbringing, if that is the way the spirit spoke to him or her. Some of us are born so early into the spirit, because of a Christian upbringing, that we don't even remember that second birth. Just as most of us don't remember our birth from the womb. Buckhorn, I do believe that Christ came back from the dead, but I don't know whether that was physical and I don't think it matters. I also don't know whether it matters if Mary was a virgin, or if the important part of the story was that He was born of spirit. (planned by God) I'm probably going to get in trouble for being so liberal about all of this, but I'm not sure the physical stuff is the point. Remember that the bible was originally written in an Eastern culture. For them it's what the stories tell us and not the physical facts that are important. The stories tell us that something greater than we are cares enough about us to give everything possible to save us from ourselves and to offer us a relationship. That's the part I think is important. If that sounds comforting to you, please consider looking into it further. Again I say, God bless you all, whatever your beliefs.
Still, I'm happier thinking He does. So, I think I will. That's actually about the best reason for believing in your god, whatever god that may be.
Agnosticism - the path of wisdom. Or at least an understanding of religion. From today's NYT: Americans are by all measures a deeply religious people, but they are also deeply ignorant about religion. Researchers from the independent Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life phoned more than 3,400 Americans and asked them 32 questions about the Bible, Christianity and other world religions, famous religious figures and the constitutional principles governing religion in public life. On average, people who took the survey answered half the questions incorrectly, and many flubbed even questions about their own faith. Those who scored the highest were atheists and agnostics, as well as two religious minorities: Jews and Mormons. The results were the same even after the researchers controlled for factors like age and racial differences. “Even after all these other factors, including education, are taken into account, atheists and agnostics, Jews and Mormons still outperform all the other religious groups in our survey,” said Greg Smith, a senior researcher at Pew. That finding might surprise some, but not Dave Silverman, president of American Atheists, an advocacy group for nonbelievers that was founded by Madalyn Murray O’Hair. “I have heard many times that atheists know more about religion than religious people,” Mr. Silverman said. “Atheism is an effect of that knowledge, not a lack of knowledge. I gave a Bible to my daughter. That’s how you make atheists.”
Perham, it always helps to not just quote the parts that you agree with. The context paints a different picture than your assertion. And yes 53% of Christians did not realize that Martin Luther started the Reformation. That's weak.
Dion, I was responding to the perceived claim that atheists/agnostics know more about the bible than Christians. With that in mind, White protestant Christians performed better in that regard. I never tried to communicate that Christians performed better in the poll overall. The data doesn't support that. However, the study does not even attempt to answer why. This does not void my earlier statement because I have never claimed that those in a "christian" culture would know more about other religions. My claim is that growing up in a "christian" culture does not make you a christian. I claim that because that is not how biblical salvation is defined. It is defined as a supernatural event, which is something that culture can not provide. Knowing about a religion and experiencing a personal, supernatural relationship with God are two different things. The difference is described in different places in the bible. You are not going to hear a persuasive answer for the question you posed. It is simple, if you really want to search for truth you can not begin and end your search with only what is found in your culture. I agree with you on that. I personally have not began and ended my search with christianity. Within my limited time and ability I have looked into other religions and philosophies. I have also interacted with people from other cultures when I have had the opportunity. I can't answer for anyone else.
My claim is that growing up in a "christian" culture does not make you a christian. If we're talking about what I think we're talking about then that was most definitely NOT your claim. Here was your claim: Believing in Jesus Christ is never a function of growing up in a "christian" culture or society.
Perham, Believing in Jesus Christ is never a function of growing up in a "christian" culture or society. My claim is that growing up in a "christian" culture does not make you a christian. I believe I am saying the same thing in these two statements. Believing in Jesus Christ is equal to being born again supernaturally and truly being a Christian which is how I describe it in my first response. The second statement is a restatement of the first. Authentic Christians are not truly Christians due to culture, they are Christians due to believing/being born again. No culture can provide faith/rebirth.
Monohorns, what you're giving us is your definition of what a Christian is. Can't a persson call herself a Christian who likes the message of brotherhood, tolerance, and love? Why not a Christian who doen't believe in the magic?
Monohorns, do you follow all of the Bible? Do you kill the Cannanite? Do you abstain from pork? We all find the parts of the Bible that we like and follow those and find rationalizations for ignoring the rest. As for being a Christian, I love those parts that make sense, and when I read and follow Christ's injuction to love my neighbor - I'm a Christian.
