FBI probe -- some assistant coaches arrested

Discussion in 'Men’s Basketball' started by Joe Fan, Sep 26, 2017.

  1. p_town_horn

    p_town_horn 1,000+ Posts

    Link

    CDC has apparently already been working on an investigation. I admire him for getting ahead of this and for being ready to release a statement so quickly.

    I think CDC has done an amazing job thus far as Athletic Director.

    Keep up the good work, Chris. :hookem:
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  2. zuckercanyon

    zuckercanyon 500+ Posts

    Sooo it can be worse?
     
  3. Horns11

    Horns11 5,000+ Posts

    According to Bowen Sr., it sure seems like the "offer" from Texas was amorphous. Like "we'll help you acquire housing," without specifically mentioning what the help would be. That would easily be enough for the NCAA to shrug it off, especially considering the other fish to fry in this case.

    Even so, we need to be better than this. Shaka had a great comment last year along the lines of "we were recruiting him and then we weren't," which told me what I wanted to hear. But it sure seems like he wanted to be in the mix. I feel like this class of kids we brought in, even though no one had it as a Top-10 type of class, is full of good kids with heads on their shoulders. Our 2019 recruiting is in the shitter with this looming over us, even though it doesn't seem to be hurting the other affected campuses like Louisville.
     
  4. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Much more in this thread, if interested


     
  5. ViperHorn

    ViperHorn 5,000+ Posts

    Schools involved in the same order as the top list:
    Arizona
    NCSU
    Kansas
    Kansas
    South Carolina

    There are other adidas schools not mentioned so they are left wondering where their money is.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

  7. Horns11

    Horns11 5,000+ Posts

    People are underestimating the impact this is going to have on the game. Combine this with Williamson's injury (getting rid of one-and-done)... this could be a new "type" of college basketball era that we're entering.
     
  8. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

     
    • WTF? WTF? x 1
  9. SabreHorn

    SabreHorn 5,000+ Posts

    Emphasis on the "in" not "of", so that can be Third Ward, Lamar. West Texas State, Tarleton, or certain schools in McLennan or Brazos County.

    Why can't anyone follow the money? Because they don't know how!

    Did the coaches get it or did the defendant keep it?

    Has anyone tracked airline tickets? Offshore credit cards? Gift cards? Insurance policies? I promise you it hasn't been done.
     
  10. I_Dont_Exist

    I_Dont_Exist 1,000+ Posts

    Based on what I've heard and read so far it will be near impossible for him to survive the at LSU. But he's not Bliss or Pitino.
     
  11. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    Well, Wade has been suspended as has Smart (the player involved). As usual the fan base didn't disappoint in their propensity towards arrogant abuse because it ruined their party:

    LSU fans deride AD during SEC title-clinching rout

    This type of thing has severely curtailed my enjoyment of college sports. I love the Horns but that's pretty much it. I don't like the situation. They say the players should be paid but to what degree? Federal law will require equity. No matter the agreed upon level of compensation the boosters and coaches will still cheat; if the bar today is a scholarship then they have to exceed that; if the bar is $5,000 a month then they will try to exceed that. That is how they differentiate between other schools and that's how the families will sell their golden goose.

    I heard Sam E. was talking about selling their images/likeness and keeping the money. Who here doesn't think that boosters will just buy up all the product in a way to funnel the money to their star player? It's not as clean as it sounds. The richest boosters will tilt the playing field no matter what. They just want to win and they'll buy the title, smoke their cigars and brag all day because THEY made it happen; Boss Hogg wins again. But if we let go of the idea of cheating then the star players get their money because of who they are. I guess that's really what this is about. How much are they worth? How much should they be paid? How should we pay them without the girls rowing team being discriminated against?
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2019
  12. blonthang

    blonthang 2,500+ Posts

    You can't.

    And then beyond that, if OLs get $2500 per month, QBs will want $10,000 per month.

    Okay, so pay them all $5,000 per month. Then deduct:

    Room and board $1750 per month
    Tuition and books $500 per month
    Uniforms and equipment $200 per month
    Facilities/gym etc. use $250 per month
    Medical care and training $500 per month
    Transportation/hotels/meals to and from out of town games $5000 per month
    Insurance, $200 per month
    Total approximate expenses per month to charge paid athletes: $9000 per month

    So, let's see, this could be a profit deal for UT, instead of just tuition, books, and room and board expenses as now, UT pays them $5,000 per month, but then charges them $9,000 per month. This might work afterall.
     
  13. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    Maybe you should negotiate the deal for the NCAA/Universities... they'd like your style.

    I'm thinking giving the players the rights to their own likeness is the way to go. It would be outside the equity of scholarships and financial support. I don't know that federal law could arguably cover their likeness. Maybe it's more likely that the NCAA/Universities just retain those rights for other reasons (cash flow; duh) and not equity.
     
  14. blonthang

    blonthang 2,500+ Posts

    This would also be fun to watch the learning experiences of 18-year olds, now trying to figure out USPTO (patent and trademark office) rules, working with agents and lawyers, manufacturers (tee shirts, key fobs, sippy cups, etc.) and distributors, CPAs to do their taxes for them, Texas state and local sales tax rules and filings.

    They'll get more of a real world education if this happens than what they might get in the classroom.

    May not leave much time to practice and play their sport however.
     
  15. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    For some reason I'm reminded of the British arguments against their granting India it's independence. They acted as if the Muslims and the Hindu's couldn't work things out (which of course was predictable and true) but Gandhi said something like, "Yes, there will be problems but they will be our own."
     
  16. blonthang

    blonthang 2,500+ Posts

    These players are totally free.

    Free to either accept a free college education in return for their efforts in a University of Texas team, or to not accept that.

    They are not downtrodden Indian untouchables.

    I guess a hotshot 4.0 mechanical engineering graduate from, name your school, gets a job with Ford or GM or Chrysler, starts in the design team, comes up with a good new design and then expects 25% of the profits of what he designed. Just because Ford or GM or Chrysler have been in business for over a century I guess means nothing. It's all about the guy who's been on the job a year or two.
     
    • Hot Hot x 1
  17. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    I hear you on that and I believe the university is owed a return on their investment commensurate with risk/cash flow. What about the NCAA? What's their cut? I don't see them as the 100 year infrastructure/brand as the automaker. They are just a bunch of sanctimonious bureaucrats with organizational skills.

    The scholarship ironically has become even more valuable when you realize the over-hang of student debt across the land. I am paying my kids college education and it's no an insignificant cost. I would have been thrilled had he landed an athletic scholarship. If he was a star player would I be whining about not getting more? I like to think I wouldn't. I accept a lot of things that happen in my life. I'm not a hard-nosed or shrewd negotiator. I've left money on the table a more talented person may have extracted from the deal. I don't like to sit around being unhappy so I have some sunshine pumping going on about life in general.

    I don't know why some families feel entitled to more than just the idea that their son will get a great education. Maybe the kid is more entitled due to his skills, but why mom and dad? And I think this is the root of the problem in many ways. That and the middle-man/street agent. At least that's what the Wade wire-tap would indicate. It's not really the kid at all. It's everyone else.
     
  18. blonthang

    blonthang 2,500+ Posts

    OK, Cool, Hook 'em!
     
  19. Horns11

    Horns11 5,000+ Posts

    Amateurism is silly. It was the invention of a bygone era in which they didn't want "ringers" playing against young people who only played sports in their spare time. It works for things like rowing. It doesn't for the revenue sports. Every school violates the practice times and treats even walk-on players like slave labor.

    Turn the Power-5 schools (plus or minus a few extras like Notre Dame) into an NFL minor league system without NCAA interference. Pay them whatever... even minimum wage if that's what they agree upon. Have a lower roster number like the NFL. Make their own TV contracts. Have a commissioner. Allow a transfer window like European soccer. And a promotion/relegation system. Make like a 9-hour mandatory class schedule for every kid and if they want to finish out a degree, give them unlimited time to do it but make them pay for it once they're not playing any longer.

    Hell, do the same for men's college basketball and just roll it in to the G-League.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    Ha... Hey, I didn't accuse you of messing around behind your wife's back!
     
  21. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    It seems it has to be completely severed from the colleges if I'm understanding Title IX. Equality equality equality.
     
  22. zuckercanyon

    zuckercanyon 500+ Posts

    One of the more brilliant posts I've seen on this board! Kudos!

    I'll add that the concept of amateur athletics (Olympics specifically) was designed so the well-to-do athletes of that time wouldn't have to compete against the guy working in the coal mine, etc., who occasionally ran races or competed in events that had cash prizes, which helped put food on the table. The rich didn't have that issue......Wouldn't look good if the "peasant" down the road just burned you in a foot race......Jim Thorpe's story is the best example I can think of.....
     
  23. Chop

    Chop 250+ Posts

    I'm very wary of these street agents/quasi street agents like the self-annointed ("The Footwork King")--who, by the way, is quite the trainer. I would hope our compliance folks are closely monitoring what is happening with recruits affiliated with these sorts of guys.
     
  24. SabreHorn

    SabreHorn 5,000+ Posts

    How about "pay your own way". When your sport raises enough money to pay for itself, everybody shares. Until then, the surplus from one sport can be shared as a committee sees fit, that committee comprised of ZERO educrats, but rather supporters and boosters that have the right to say where their funds are spent. Worked pretty well for us when Deloss had a questionnaire allowing us check priorities on our donations. That was discontinued as being less than overwhelmingly politically correct.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019 at 9:38 AM
  25. Horns11

    Horns11 5,000+ Posts

    It'll make Title IX enforcement easier because we can limit roster sizes and then don't need to justify 50 extra roster spots for women's sports spread out over umpteen nonrevenue teams.

    Hell, at that point all you have to worry about are things like FLSA.
     
  26. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    Selling your own likeness should be market driven. If they are stuck on equal opportunity you still can give the same number of scholarships to women as you do men. Then the stars can supplement by selling themselves. Would that work around Title IX?
     
  27. blonthang

    blonthang 2,500+ Posts

    Are Kelee Ringo teeshirts hot items right now?

    When/if he comes to UT, puts on a University of Texas uniform and stars here, then the swag sells.

    Without the 150 years of UT football as a platform he's just another 19 year old kid.
     
  28. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    Would you describe Zion Williamson just another kid? Is it Duke or him? He could have gone anywhere and blown up. Same with Vince.
     
  29. blonthang

    blonthang 2,500+ Posts

    Ok, include Duke with UT, I'm fine with that.

    Without Duke Zion plays pickup games in the local gym.

    Without the massive institutional backdrop of NCAA sports and TV, etc. he's on his own.

    Don't take this view as pro-institution. I am the most individual freedom advocate, anti-big-institution person I know.

    I also am firmly grounded in reality. Sure, these kids are talented. But they are being provided with the institutional machine they need to express their abilities.
     
  30. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    Would you be in favor of kids being able to turn pro without the one year in college? In other words, by-passing the back-drop?
     

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