Fire Tom Herman

Discussion in 'On The Field' started by Austin_Bill, Oct 26, 2019.

  1. dukesteer

    dukesteer 2,500+ Posts

    I’ve written this before but the loudest I ever heard it at (at the time) Texas Memorial Stadium was Speyer’s completely unexpected and shocking TD catch with, as I recall, 45 seconds left against UCLA in 1970.

    We were going to lose the game and see the end of our 30 game (?) win streak. The stadium was so quiet that you might have been able to hear a pin drop. It was eerie.

    I was working in the press box and when he made the catch — as the two defenders crossed in front of him attempting to make the interception, the press box went absolutely nuts. Journalists and even the always conservative and even keel Jones Ramsey (Sports News Director) went absolutely nuts, like gleeful little kids.
     
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  2. Creek

    Creek 500+ Posts

    Ehlinger was clearly better than Buechele. SMU would probably beat Texas. So you have to look at Herman.
    His team's are mentally too lazy to play hard for 60 minutes against less talented teams. Makes football hard to watch.
     
  3. RainH2burntO

    RainH2burntO 1,000+ Posts

    I think something good has been going on in that locker room the last week and a half, unlike a few previous weeks. I fully expect it to show on the field this Saturday.
     
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  4. Horns11

    Horns11 5,000+ Posts

    I think it could have been any other coach this year too (not Herman) coaching Texas, and the team would probably still lose to SMU in 2019.

    This is bigger than just Herman's lack of adjustments or injuries or Orlando's scheming. It's systemic. We're Texas, so **** you. Mack Brown would be losing with this team, and Charlie Strong would be losing with this team. I think we need a complete overhaul of how we recruit, what to expect from kids once they step on campus, and stop relying on things like locker room renovations and parties at the coach's pool in order to get a better handle of what "success" looks like on the field.

    The other programs that seem to be victims of this mentality right now include USC, FSU, UCLA, Michigan, and a handful of other blue bloods. So it's nice to have company, but I'd much rather be taking lessons from Swinney or Rhule or Fleck about what needs to happen behind the scenes in order to stop shitting the bed every week.

    I thought getting Beaty and Fedora as QA guys would help a little bit, but I guess I was wrong.
     
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  5. nashhorn

    nashhorn 2,500+ Posts

    I think it more accurate to say they have different skill sets Creek, not sure I agree Sam is clearly better - just different as I said.
    But I completely agree there are coaching issues, glaring on some aspects. Special teams are NOT special, that’s for sure. Hoping to see a fired up squad on Sat!!!!
     
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  6. ViperHorn

    ViperHorn 5,000+ Posts

    for 60 minutes.
     
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  7. dukesteer

    dukesteer 2,500+ Posts

    Gotta disagree, strongly. To me this is all about coaching and scheming. Let me add that the “culture” is set and managed by the HC. So if there is a problem in the locker room, look no further than the man in charge.

    This team has playmakers everywhere, but many are not making plays. They’re simply loaded on offense, and two years ago Texas pulled in a DB class for the ages.

    We’ve got the best players in the league and aside from OU, it’s not even close.

    It’s the coaching.
     
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  8. Austin_Bill

    Austin_Bill 1,000+ Posts

    Somehow, it's the Democrats fault, I don't know how, but I know they are to blame for this.
     
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  9. AC

    AC 1,000+ Posts

    IMHO, we keep skipping over lack of depth. Ignoring it when it is a major issue. Two good recruiting classes is a start but we don't have enough depth yet. Lose 8 starters on D after last year, and lose 6 starters on D to injury and we're 1-2 the last three weeks. However, put 5 of those starters back in the starting rotation and we should start seeing an uptick in production. Remember, we have J Whitt back, that's huge. I hope we can get to 8-4 or maybe 9-3 with some luck. I hope TH and TB are aggressive and creative in getting the ball in J Whitt's hands in open space. He could be slot and RB sometimes on the same play. We could use him running straight ahead, out of the wildcat, or on end arounds. I would motion him out of the backfield a lot, or vise versa. KSU is going to see some new looks this week, especially on offense. I just think TH tossed the TSU game plan into plain vanilla don't show anyone what we're going to do next. Oh and Sam go win the game but you have two good targets to throw to cause we're holding out Eagles. Why? Because we had to start freshman and some walk on's had to play due to above mentioned injuries. The locker room issues caused us to lose Eagles for TCU I presume. I think the staff was just surviving to the bye week. We really should go at least 3-1 the final home stretch, and if we don't the problems are worse than I thought.

    :hookem2:
     
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  10. nashhorn

    nashhorn 2,500+ Posts

    Like your synopsis AC, my comment would be they should have used K Johnson. He has so much potential and cannot be questioned he’s hungry to play.
     
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  11. RainH2burntO

    RainH2burntO 1,000+ Posts

    Do not think we would lose to SMU right now.
    I believe we would beat TCU if we played again, and if we play the sooners with relative health and getting past the behind the scenes distractions...I'll bet on us.
    There are explanations for the midseason slump we hit and, though some may indicate a larger issue, most CFP teams have plenty of issues, and I still believe this team, when healthy and minus locker room distraction/immaturity...while not perfect...and some coaching issues included.. I'd still put around the #11 to 17 spot on any given day vs the others.
    We'll know alot after Saturday, and you can tell me I'm wrong or right...though I dont believe you can conclude too much necessarily from 1 game always.
    We can certainly conclude some things from the OU-Kansas-TCU stretch. The question is do you believe, though there are some issues, that the primary causes of the stretch were reflective of those ongoing concerns or something else that was coincidental and temporary in nature.
    I'm currently believing the latter.
     
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  12. Austin_Bill

    Austin_Bill 1,000+ Posts

    Football is as much a game of strategy as it is physical. Our coaches are losing the strategy aspect of the game. We do certain things, and other coaches counter, we aren't countering back and this is what is killing us. Other coaches have taken away what we do best and we are not doing other things. I'm sitting at home and I can tell what Orlando is going to do, before he does it, and if I can do this, you know the opposing coach knows it. Same with Beck and the offense.

    The second part is the fundamentals have gone away. Especially in tackling, but in a lot of other positions as well, taking poor pursuit angles, Wrs can't get off the line, the list goes on and on.

    It all points back to coaching. We are losing the mental part of the game, and that is on our coaches. Losing should never be accepted at the University of Texas, but when you lose to an equally talented team like LSU or blowu it's not fun and we don't like it, but we understand that is how it goes, but when we almost lose to an inferior opponent like KU and get stomped by TCU, red lights should go off for everyone. At some point excuses need to stop.
     
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  13. Clean

    Clean 5,000+ Posts

    I was sitting in the stands with my future ex-wife stomping on the aluminum seats like crazy. I think there were only maybe 13 seconds on the clock when Speyer scored. DKR always said that was the loudest he ever heard it. Of course, there were only 60K in the stadium then compared to 100K today.
     
  14. LAGA4

    LAGA4 250+ Posts

    You make good points about injuries and lack of depth on the defense.

    However, injuries and depth are one thing, being fundamentally unsound is another. The coaches are responsible for making sure the players, including backups, understand fundamentals and what the defense is trying to accomplish. I'm not a coach, but I know a what a team that has been well coached looks like.

    Our defense really doesn't look like they know what they are doing. Tackling is horrible and the scheme doesn't seem to fit the circumstances and the stats show it.

    They look lost on defense.
     
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  15. RainH2burntO

    RainH2burntO 1,000+ Posts

    I dont disagree with your points, Bill.
    These are the things I was alluding to as the "ongoing concerns".
    Some of us just believe that
    1. Even with those there are other circumstantial things that have added up the last few weeks to make things seem worse than they are. These points aren't mutually exclusive and one doesnt trump the other...at least to us
    2. The staff deserves more patience and support...show of faith that the "ongoing concerns" can and will be corrected

    Again, I agree with your points and they are disconcerting.
    JMHO
     
  16. AC

    AC 1,000+ Posts

    Excuses will stop but we need to complete year three first.
    1. Can the coaching staff counter the changes opposing coaches are throwing at us? I think so when we have the right personnel.
    2. Can the coaching staff get our freshman playmakers to stop over thinking and fly to the football on D? Can they get KS and BE to focus on catching the ball before they focus on making a football move? And running correct routes? I think that takes longer but by the bowl game it should start paying dividends.

    3. Can the coaching staff get freshman through senior to play as one team?? I don’t know. But that is probably where they earn those huge paychecks!

    MB had tough years early on, 1999 and 2000. I think we are in that grind right now.
     
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  17. nashhorn

    nashhorn 2,500+ Posts

    This strategy/reads/instinct discussion brings me back to some early season thoughts. I for one am excited about our injured returning, particularly Sterns one of my favs. But I know early in season there was a lot of talk that he had fallen off from last year - got me to thinking about his play last year vs this and I think what we’ve been reading here focuses on his issue. Last year he played with abandonment, maybe due to as a Frosh not knowing better. Now he’s had a year of coaching/training here and showed more constraint. Is that a possible explanation? Just thinking it through here and wondering why his decision making in coverage did not seem as accurate as last year. There were a number of long throws he read the wrong receiver this year as compared to last year. I’m just wondering now if maybe it was a ‘coached’ error and not individual judgement. Thinking out loud here.
     
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  18. RainH2burntO

    RainH2burntO 1,000+ Posts

    Good question and line of thinking.
    I personally think he was a bit overhyped from last year and expectations too high = pressure to perform + injuries + maybe some coaching as you say = X
    Idk...I just like watching football and cheering for my team and players on my team. Can't wait to see him back out there.
    Hook 'em
     
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    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
  19. MajesticII

    MajesticII 1,000+ Posts

    Coaches DO NOT CHANGE..... ALL coaches are like that. They will continue with what they THINK works even when it doesn't. In their minds they blame execution over the fact their scheme sucks, or has defects that need changing.......
     
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  20. SabreHorn

    SabreHorn 5,000+ Posts

    So you do know John Mackovic and Lynn "I never saw a bus I couldn't throw a player under" Amedee
     
  21. Chop

    Chop 2,500+ Posts

    Does the old management principle of praising your people publicly, and criticizing them privately, not apply in football?
     
  22. #2is#1

    #2is#1 1,000+ Posts

    The coaches of the two top teams playing this weekend absolutely changed.
    Saban, and Orgeron.
    Saban hated no huddle, wanted to change the rules.
    He hired Kiffin, Sark, recruited guys that fit, and just bought into it.
    Now the over/under for this game is 62.
    Orgeron handed the reigns basically to the 29 y/o pass game coordinator we all heard about 65 times.
     
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  23. LazyHorn

    LazyHorn < 25 Posts

    I'm sure as hell not happy with the product on the field this year but I'm also not ready to get back on the coaching carousel we had under CS and last few years of Mack. A program needs to build consistency in offensive and defensive philosophy.
    It's just year 3, I have a little more patience.
     
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  24. dukesteer

    dukesteer 2,500+ Posts

    I also like this line of thinking and I do wonder if all of the coaching up and weight training can sometimes be counter productive.

    The most impactful first year defensive player I ever saw at Texas was Derrick Johnson. He was “blow you away” amazing. All over the field and crazy disruptive. To me he never had the impact later of those first few games.

    To me it seems like “coaching up” is sometimes the opposite...
     
  25. dukesteer

    dukesteer 2,500+ Posts

    Again, I believe that few are suggesting a HC change at the moment. DC, probably.

    We want to see progress — or something — and after laying eggs in Dallas and against Kansas, we saw an equally bad performance in Ft. Worth.

    This weekend will likely tell us plenty. We really need to see progress.
     
  26. HalRex

    HalRex 100+ Posts

    I’m thinking we’ll see “progress” this weekend. The same coaches that most here were gushing about not too long ago are still in place and forging ahead despite the youth/injury headwinds. Realism is your friend, panic and flamethrowing is not.
     
  27. caryhorn

    caryhorn 5,000+ Posts

    Democrats know basketball better than they do football, so this post^^^belongs on the basketball forum:cowrose:. (my lame attempt at humor)
     
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  28. caryhorn

    caryhorn 5,000+ Posts

    I agree^^, and I hope the return of some injured players helps. And I hope Orlando has done some soul searching and comes up with some adjustments that help the defense.
     
  29. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    Duke, I have never agreed with you so much about anything. We are in complete agreement here.

    Charlie Strong proved that "culture changes" are mostly BS... or at least it has been with respect to Texas. Texas had recruiting and strategy (bad assistant hires, going away from the spread, etc) problems the last four years of Mack Brown (as well as injury problems). Culture was never the issue. Side note: Charlie took over an 11-2 South Florida and claimed there was a "culture problem" there too, which made no sense as he took over a winning program. Charlie's "culture change" is a schtick to use as an excuse and buy time. Please do not buy it.

    Tom Herman has the best "culture" of any Texas coach I have ever seen as far as having the team ready to play every week and players never quitting. Tom Herman has never suffered a 20 point blow out loss. Even DKR and Mack Brown had plenty of those. Tom Herman only has one 17 or more point loss to a top 10 TCU on the road in his first year. That game is the only game I have seen under Herman in which we were totally outclassed, yet still kept it within 20.

    Herman's problems are 100% strategic in nature. He does not manage the clock well. He is choosing to ignore special teams. He seems completely stuck on his Urban Meyer spread system. We do not adjust our offense or defense week to week or in-game. One of Greg Davis's flaws was he would script plays in the first half. Getting off the script is why Greg Davis's offenses are historically so much better in the 4th quarter. Tim Beck seems to stick to a script the entire damn game!

    Herman's offenses were much better at U of H and certainly adjusted to the opponent and in-game. I think it has to do with Applewhite is simply better than Beck. Applewhite can adjust (see 2013 having to change the offense for Case McCoy after the more mobile Ash got hurt). My opinion is Herman should promote Larry Fedora to OC. Fedora was not meant to be a head coach, but he is a hell of an offensive coordinator.

    Coaches do improve and get better. Herman is very young and can certainly improve. I wish an older, retried coach would mentor him on special teams, clock management, etc. Anyway, Herman also needs to learn he is as only as good as his assistants and make sure he has the right personnel.

    Here is a problem we do not need to repeat from the Charlie Strong era: one win or loss is not progress. Progress would be going 4-0 or worst case 3-1 with only a loss @ Iowa State or @ Baylor... although I lean heavily to "we need to go 4-0". I do think we win Saturday. Kansas State has hired a fantastic coach, but first year teams like that tend to be up and down. I can very much see Kansas State under its first year coach laying an egg on the road this week. What will matter for Herman is not just beating Kansas State, but continuing to win after.

    On another note, even if KSU lays an egg this week, I think Klieman is the real deal and Florida State would be smart to give him a look (and get him off of our schedule).
     
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    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
  30. caryhorn

    caryhorn 5,000+ Posts

    This^^^
     
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