Foreign Policy Discussion: Russia

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by Musburger1, May 23, 2016.

  1. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Poor Poland - has there been a country with worse luck when it comes to geography?
    Mr. Deez likes this.
  2. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 5,000+ Posts

    None that I can think of. I'm no Trump worshipper, but his comments on Poland and the Polish people were spot on. The fact that they still exist as a country and a people is truly remarkable.
  3. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Yet they still managed to stop the Muslim Crusades at the Vienna Gates in 1683, and then the Commie Crusade in 1920

    Poles are underrated by history
    Brad Austin and Mr. Deez like this.
  4. Monahorns

    Monahorns 1,000+ Posts

    I think it is possible that the US could have beat Germany after Japan had been defeated. Once "we" would have been able to focus all of "our" attention on Europe I think it would have been a matter of time.
  5. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    So this Russia embassy fire thing is pretty weird
    This article says the embedded video shows them burning papers

    Foreign Policy reported seeing staff "dumping what appeared to be paper into the fire." Earlier Friday, a woman climbed the building's back wall and used bolt cutters to remove security cameras.

    The incidents come a day after President Trump ordered Russia minimize its diplomatic presence in the U.S. after Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered the U.S. to reduce its diplomatic staff in Russia by 755 employees.

    San Francisco's fire department received a call Friday afternoon about smoke coming from the roof of a building. Upon arriving at the Russian consulate, the first responders were turned away by Russian officials who said they were burning unspecified items in a fireplace.
  6. Musburger1

    Musburger1 1,000+ Posts

    Soon it will be crunch time in Syria. ISIS has nearly been defeated and its only a matter of time. Trump previously stated his only interest in Syria is defeating ISIS. That statement will soon be tested.

    Two issues remain.

    In Eastern Syria, Assad's army has almost liberated the last ISIS stronghold of Deir Ezzor. Meanwhile the Kurds have taken control of Syria's oil region with US backing. The Syrian army will soon cross the Euphrates and attempt to reclaim its land from the Kurds which previously had been controlled by ISIS. Assad, Russia, and Turkey have condemned the US for ignoring Syrian sovereinty and aiding the Kurds. Will Trump step back as his goal of defeating ISIS is obtained or will the US further escalate the situation and risk confrontation with Turkey and/or Russia?

    In the South, Israel has threaten war against Syria and recently received a secret unannounced visit from the Saudi leader. Israel wants Iran completely out of Syria. Both Israel and the Saudis hope to influence the US to escalate here also. If Israel acts, will Trump drag the US into the mix?

    This should begin to play out one way or another in the next several weeks or months.
  7. Brad Austin

    Brad Austin 2,500+ Posts

    Ignoring Syrian sovereignty? The same way Assad allowed ISIS to ignore Syrian sovereignty and amass an army of soldiers from surrounding countries?

    The group of invaders that declared war on the U.S. and promotes attacks on our home soil and citizens.

    We did what we had to do to combat the threat facing our country. And the Kurds were the only trustworthy, loyal partner to prop up.

    F*ck Assad, Russia, Turkey, and Iran condemnations. Their little 4-way circle jerk is the real group with ulterior motives in Syria.

    Israel knows this very well which is why they're dialed in, and rightfully so. An Iranian-run proxy right next door is a grave threat to their security.

    Countless people who know DT intimately vow the man has no desire whatsoever to nation build. But one thing he values is loyalty. He will show loyalty to Israel and more importantly the Kurds.

    It would be in Assad's best interests to peacefully negotiate the return of the Kurd controlled areas in exchange for a protected area of their own.

    If the U.S. gets dragged into a confrontation it's because Assad's bunch tried to roughshod our ally who had the balls to rip away the land from the group that ripped it away from Assad's defeated forces.

    If Assad's side isn't willing to negotiate a peaceful resolution that gives acceptable consideration to the Kurds, then come and take it.

    The last thing the U.S. can afford is to turn tail and run leaving yet another M.E. ally who trusted us holding the business end of a shotgun.
  8. Musburger1

    Musburger1 1,000+ Posts

    Brad you actually seem to believe that nonsense you spouted. Assad didn't create ISIS and wreck Syria, the US created ISIS and encouraged them to invade Syria. Hell, John Kerry was taped admitting just that as well as a 2012 assessment that was made public.

    By even having forces inside Syria the US is breaking international law. That's a fact. And with the defeat of ISIS there is absolutely no excuse for remaining. Talk about a double standard. The people of Crimea have no right to have a say in their own destiny via the vote and Russia is sanctioned for intervening, yet the US has the right to back terrorists and determine what boundaries are drawn where.
  9. Brad Austin

    Brad Austin 2,500+ Posts

    Yeah I get it, Assad is an innocent victim, Putin is a good samaritan, and everything sinister is the result of U.S. conspiracies.

    Just like 9/11 was a false flag inside job. Bigfoot is the result of a rogue U.S. government genetic manipulation program gone wrong.

    Keep throwing bs at the wall and hoping something sticks. Wasn't there supposed to be 150,000 U.S. troops pouring into Syria months ago?

    Your go-to conspiracy sites burned DT in effigy for his impending massive troop surge that never even remotely happened.

    Must feel special backing such good folks as Assad, Erdogan, Khamenei, and Putin. All the makings of a dictator fetish.
  10. Musburger1

    Musburger1 1,000+ Posts

    All I did was provide data, facts, and make likely projections based on what is known. Sorry that offends you.
  11. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 5,000+ Posts

    Putin/Russia essentially tried to reset relations with the US in April per TheHill.
  12. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 5,000+ Posts

    Careful Brad. He's got you on a few things. First, our involvement in Syria probably does violate international law, if you accept the UN charter as binding. We're not there out of self-defense, and the Security Council hasn't authorized our actions. It's a bit ironic that a guy who detests globalism would invoke the ultimate prerogative of globalists (international law), but that's another topic.

    Second, Kerry did say some incriminating and stupid things that suggest that we leveraged ISIS to promote the overthrow of Assad. Assad's no Boy Scout, but the idea that his overthrow should be our top priority over all things was ridiculous. I'm not a kneejerk Obama hater like many here are, but his Syria policy was a mess and had terrible priorities. They really should be ashamed.

    Third, though I think the situations are distinguishable, he has a point that we have a double standard in arguing that the Kurds have a right of self-determination but that the Crimeans do not. Of course, he presents the exact same double standard in reverse, so take that for what it's worth.

    Having said that, the idea that we should just abandon the area and make no attempt to influence the resolution of the conflict is utterly absurd. Who the hell does that after spending money and blood in a war? In addition, we've been toying with the Kurds for 25 years. They've been a loyal US ally in the hopes that we would help them have a state. We fleeced them after the first Gulf War and again after the Iraq War. If we don't at least make an attempt this time, why would they play ball with us again? They'll more likely reach out to Russia (who will stay in Syria no matter what we do), who might grant them some token autonomy but no state in return for walking away from the West. That's what Musburger wants because it's good for Putin, Iran, and China, but it's not good for the West.
  13. Brad Austin

    Brad Austin 2,500+ Posts

    There's no doubt there are valid facts in Mus' arguments on the subject, not denying that. I'm definitely not defending the last administration's incompetence in Syria.

    However, the can of worms has long been opened and dumped all over the Syrian landscape. Assad also bears much responsibility for our ongoing need to be there.

    I find it ironic Assad would plead for international law to protect his sovereignty. Seems odd for a leader who's been deemed a war criminal to retain that right.

    Though the truth behind the chemical attacks are far from conclusive to many of us, the international agencies tasked to investigate them concluded he was responsible.

    "A UN commission probing Syria rights abuses has gathered enough evidence to convict President Bashar al-Assad of war crimes, an outgoing member of the commission said in interviews published Sunday.

    Veteran former war crimes prosecutor Carla Del Ponte, who is preparing to step down after five years serving in the UN Commission of Inquiry on Syria, told Swiss media the evidence against Assad was sufficient to secure a war crimes conviction."

    If we pull out of Syria and honor his sovereignty is he going to turn himself in to stand trial for those alleged war crimes?
  14. Musburger1

    Musburger1 1,000+ Posts

    Don't even go there about war criminals. The victors define who is the war criminal and who is unaccountable. The Nazis committed atrocities and were hanged.

    LBJ used chemicals and killed hundreds of thousands of Viet Namese but unless the US could be conquered, no American President could be charged with war a war crime; much less be convicted.

    Saddam Hussein did horrible things. He was hanged. Clinton's sanctions and Bush's bombs killed hundreds of innocent Iraqis. And Iraq posed no threat to the US. Depleted uranium weapons are causing mutations in Fallujah and will continue to do so for centuries. Think Clinton or Bush will be charged with war crimes?

    The US continues to supply and train the Saudis who with US support and approval continue to starve and slaughter civilians in Yemen. Both Obama and now Trump or complicit. Shut your yap about war crimes. The US leads the world in this category.
  15. Musburger1

    Musburger1 1,000+ Posts

  16. Musburger1

    Musburger1 1,000+ Posts

  17. Musburger1

    Musburger1 1,000+ Posts

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