Great Commentary and Insight on Mack

Discussion in 'On The Field' started by RainH2burntO, May 25, 2021.

  1. RainH2burntO

    RainH2burntO 2,500+ Posts

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  2. Godz40acres

    Godz40acres Happy Feller

    Good article.

    As a person, I've always considered Mack a good man. As our coach, I was not a big supporter for several reasons. The biggest of these was only 2 conference titles in 16 years (although I credit him with 2 NC's cuz 2009 would have been if....).

    Overall, I'm glad he was our HC and am happy for him and what he's doing @ North Carolina.
     
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  3. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    Houston Nutt is not worthy period.
    But he got that right
     
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  4. X Misn Tx

    X Misn Tx 2,500+ Posts

    That's very cool. Good article.

    He really was an outstanding ambassador.
     
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  5. n64ra

    n64ra 1,000+ Posts

    If you credit MB with two NCs, you ought to credit him with three conference titles as 2008 was a vote via the BCS!
     
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  6. Pomspoms

    Pomspoms 5,000+ Posts

    Oh yeah Mack was the perfect (almost) coach for the longhorns with all its diplomacy demands. Great person and recruiter. Just needed to tighten up a few things. I am full of positive thoughts about Brown.
    Too early to make a judgment about Sark yet but he is off to a great start.
    Though I am high on Sark one thing that keeps me grounded is that he was only 7(?) games above .500 at Washington something like 42-35. But he has a much stronger reputation these days for recruiting top players and that will make a big difference.:headbang:
     
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  7. Godz40acres

    Godz40acres Happy Feller

    If memory serves, the B12 decided who the South champ was in the 3-way tie by which team was ranked higher in the BSC (which I think was their rule for that situation). ou got it, won the B12 Champ game thereby getting into the BSC. But, even 3 conference titles in 16 years doesn't blow my skirt up – not for Texas.
     
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  8. RainH2burntO

    RainH2burntO 2,500+ Posts

    Well, all I know is we haven't done jack since.

    It appears Mack was better than we estimated and thought big bad UT could just plug in any chump and win big. We were wrong. Coaching is a tough job and few can do it at an elite level much less do so consistently. I hope the last 7 years has humbled us at least a little....less we be likened to an owner up the interstate who suffers from the same prideful delusions.

    [This is not a direct argument with Godz (I agree w about 98% of your posts/notions)...just my own general take]
     
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  9. Horns11

    Horns11 10,000+ Posts

    It's actually par for the course for Texas. Three conference titles in 30 years at the moment.

    3 for 18 in the Akers/McWilliams years.

    People who play football today are way too young to reminisce about the Royal years. Even Tom Brady.
     
  10. Horns11

    Horns11 10,000+ Posts

    It's an unenviable job for sure. I will say that as good as Mack was at the stuff mentioned in the article (making sure donors were placated and people followed Texas the brand), he was equally as bad at keeping up with X's and O's trends of the game, recruiting patterns, and understanding how the game itself was changing in the late oughts and early 2010s.
     
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  11. RainH2burntO

    RainH2burntO 2,500+ Posts

    Agreed.
    And this^^^^^makes what Saban is doing in this modern era that much more impressive.
     
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  12. Chop

    Chop 10,000+ Posts

    He was nearly unequalled at recruiting, media affairs, and program management during his time at UT. Personally, I'd put some of the on-the-field failures on his reluctance to replace coordinators, and OL coaches, as needed.
     
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  13. Horns11

    Horns11 10,000+ Posts

    Mack himself botched a lot of the trench and skill position player recruiting battles around the time of the last national championship, including telling Chris Whaley that we wouldn't recruit another back to compete with him. While the world (except Alabama) was switching to more zone based spread stuff, he thought getting the big backs was the thing that would solve all our problems.

    But I'll definitely agree on the position coach failures. McWhorter was cashing paychecks that he definitely didn't earn after about 2006 onward. Bobby Kennedy's school of "get the ball to Cosby or Shipley" and "routes? what's a route?" was pitiful and exposed in 2010, and Stanford is still wondering when he's going to reap some dividends for them.
     
  14. Sydhank

    Sydhank 100+ Posts

    Mack is a good man. Like 99th percentile people person. I saw him in smaller social settings a couple of times and he was magnetic and in a league of his own. My father in law is an old razorback and hates everything related to texas football and Mack had him eating out of his hand in a 5 minute conversation.

    Wish we had gotten him 5 years earlier though. I know the common refrain is he mailed it in a bit towards the end as if his role was symbolic. It did seem to me he lost the hunger in the last few. A bit doughy and prickly at the same time. Stoops always seemed to have an sharp edge that Mack did not.

    But great story about him with our troops and not even a little bit surprising.
     
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  15. n64ra

    n64ra 1,000+ Posts

    Woof.
    • 3 in 18 for Akers/McWilliams
    • 2 (3) in 16 for Brown
    MB's time was harder since he had OU in the conference while Akers/McWilliams could afford to lose that game without affecting their conference standings.
     
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  16. Horns11

    Horns11 10,000+ Posts

    I'll agree to that. Years in which OU won the conference but we could have controlled our own destiny included 2002 (Tech game), 2006 (collapse against KSU and A&M), 2007 (A&M), 2018 (CCG loss), and 2020 (ISU game).
     
  17. Duck Dodgers

    Duck Dodgers 1,000+ Posts

    I think this makes it sound like there was some huge change in college football that Mack didn't realize, instead of just:

    1. Foolishly trying to re-invent Texas football from the spread QB years of Vince and Colt, to some 3 yards and a cloud of dust via RB, all from being beaten by an Alabama team in the Rose bowl that did that (but was on track to losing that game until Colt was injured).

    2. Getting lazy and mailing in recruiting during the post 2010 time frame.

    3. Throughout his tenue at Texas, needing the best QB in college football at the time (Vince, Colt), to win even a best of 10 team conference championship. When Texas didn't have such a weapon at QB, other aspects his coaching were enough to prevent any B12 titles.
     
  18. LAGA4

    LAGA4 500+ Posts

    The game really passed him by in a hurry.
    Probably kept Greg Davis to long, and when he did replace him there was a lot of talk he didn't give Harsin the control over the offense he was due. Whether that is true or not I don't know, but Harsin sure caught the first train running out of Austin.
    I agree, he was a good guy that just didn't keep up with the times.
     
  19. Duck Dodgers

    Duck Dodgers 1,000+ Posts

    But did it? How were the offenses of the early 2010's any different than the QB spread that Texas ran with Vince and Colt?

    It's not like the forward pass was invented and Mack was still trying to run the Flying V formation.

    My point here and in the other post is that's sort of a cop out for Mack - "oh well, the game changed and he couldn't change with it".

    My thought is more that he was foolish in the 2010 season about a power run offense that he had no personnel for or history with, and got lazy. Plus he needed the best QB in college football to have top tier teams, and with the GG / Ash / McCoy trio, they were no where near good enough to win the games on their own.
     
  20. SabreHorn

    SabreHorn 10,000+ Posts

    I shall repeat what I posted over 20 years ago and got banned from this board for a while - keeping Greg Davis around for five minutes was way too long.

    The woman that banned me didn't know Greg and didn't care that at that point I had known him for over 30 years.

    When I got the call in San Antonio that they were going to make an offer to Mack Brown, my first comment was, "Don't let him bring Greg Davis"
     
  21. RainH2burntO

    RainH2burntO 2,500+ Posts

    There are many reasons Mack struggled down the stretch prior to his departure.
    Having said this, you can trace the progression from 1-2 loss seasons to 3-5 loss seasons directly to his not finding a suitable QB post-Colt. One could add to that a mishandling perhaps of Gilbert.
    Almost no coaches/teams win 10+ games per season and even less do so consistently without a top level QB.
    A top level QB can cover a multitude of sins....and Mack blew it down the stretch.
    I still say we beat Oregon in 2013 Alamo Bowl with even a decent QB. The QB play for us was atrocious in that game...
     
  22. Duck Dodgers

    Duck Dodgers 1,000+ Posts

    Mack, more than other coaches I've watched, really needed a fantastic QB to win. Now you're team is obviously going to be better with a great QB - it is the most important position on the team. But other coaches have won conference championships with no name QB's that you'd be hard pressed to remember.

    Mack needed both Vince and Colt to win CC's, and even with that level of ability, each won only 1 CC in their time at Texas.
     
  23. n64ra

    n64ra 1,000+ Posts

    Only three of those five are Mack's, and he would have had to won an additional game to win the Big 12 - the CCG. He would have probably lost to the #1 ranked Mizzou Tigers (can't believe that's real) in 2007.
     
  24. FWHORN

    FWHORN 10,000+ Posts

    My support for Mack and the reasons for it are in too many other threads to relist here but I will say on a personal level that the two times I spoke with him he spoke to me like I was the only person in the room and that his conversation with me was the most important thing at that time to him. He was as likeable and relatable a person as I have ever met. During my years at Texas as an undergrad and a law student Texas had just 3 winning seasons, one of which was 6-5 with a win over a non Division One school, so I saw a lot of bad football. What Mack did to transform Texas was nothing short of astounding and whatever his shortcomings he got us that NC after 35 years of wandering in the wilderness. For that I will always be a Mack fan.
     
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  25. Ut forever

    Ut forever 25+ Posts

    Mack was fantastic with the high school coaches... I have 2 friends who are high school and middle school coaches... Both have met Mack at coaching clinics and said he has remembered there first names when greeting them for the second time..
     
  26. RainH2burntO

    RainH2burntO 2,500+ Posts

    Now we are getting somewhere....

    This^^^^ kind of old school honor and dignity, combined with wisdom, is what is so often missing these days. Apparently, contrary to how things seem, not all young people (and admin and fanbases) have "progressed" beyond needing and appreciating such things...as witnessed by his current NCarolina success. Having a real leader who is grounded in real things that have real value is worth more than gold these days...and very hard to find. All in all, relative to what was and is out there in CFB world as alternatives, Mack is a top 1%er to me and always will be, shortcomings and all.
     
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  27. RainH2burntO

    RainH2burntO 2,500+ Posts

    By the way, any of you guys have any insight/insider info on to what degree Mack was warned or given time and chances to right a few things before being pushed out?
    I know it is real hard when you are "successful " or have been and at that age to change or get a message sometime until you are forced to. I would love to hear someone with some insight shed light on the process, behind the scenes years leading up to, or timeline, etc.
    Sabre???
     
  28. Txreds

    Txreds 250+ Posts

    Mack definitely had his faults but the two replacements could not even get close to what Mack brought us.

    I don’t know what all went on behind the scenes. All I know is he went somewhere else that had a losing record and got them winning again unlike us.
     
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  29. NRHorn

    NRHorn 2,500+ Posts

    I am wrong, I am wrong a lot. Just ask Moon and how my autocorrect makes his day.
    But on this I was right. The BS some loud LH fans spewed about firing Mack was shortsighted and now has proven to be nonsense.
    Ever since Chip Brown “broke” the story of a hero to me instead of letting Mack leave with the respect he needed, I have read, listened to and watched nothing of what that little boy has communicated.
    When I hear his overly pronunciation of E V E R Y syllable- voice on a presser, I mute it.
    Brown is a legend, UT really made an *** of themselves - The UT Football program didn’t deserve Brown at the time of his poorly handled firing..and from what I see Sark is the right person now.
     
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    Last edited: May 31, 2021
  30. SabreHorn

    SabreHorn 10,000+ Posts

    I submit to you that UT did little or nothing; Billie Powers, however, lied, humped the puppy, and could not possibly have handled things more poorly than he did. We got a graphic demonstration as to why Billie Powers taught law rather than practicing it - he could never have hacked it in corporate America.

    Place the blame where it belongs - solidly at the feet of Billie Powers.
     
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