Hard to Believe We Were 27-16 With Sam as a Starter

Discussion in 'On The Field' started by RainH2burntO, Apr 18, 2021.

  1. KBBAKER

    KBBAKER 500+ Posts

    If Herman wins the following ten games, he is still our head coach today:

    Maryland 2017
    USC 2017
    OK State 2017
    Texas Tech 2017
    Maryland 2018
    West Virginia 2018
    LSU 2019
    TCU 2019
    TCU 2020
    Iowa State 2020

    Most of these losses were of the "bonehead" variety.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. WorsterMan

    WorsterMan 10,000+ Posts

    As you pointed out .... many of those losses above were not his fault - thank you.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  3. Chop

    Chop 5,000+ Posts

    Oooooo, ooooooo, oooooo. I know the answer:

    Nearly all of those losses you referenced were unfairly pinned on Sam. And such losses were actually caused by the sort of reasons you mentioned.

    :bevo::popcorn:
    Analysis made while leaning on armchair.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
  4. wadster

    wadster 5,000+ Posts

    If we just don't run QB power on every 3rd or 4th and short we'd have 5-6 more wins. TH is just a friggin moron dressed in a mensa suite.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. das3603

    das3603 25+ Posts

    Same number of losses as another 4 year starter Peter Gardere. Those were lean years except for one. Hard to believe they have the same number of losses as starters. That is sobering
     
  6. wadster

    wadster 5,000+ Posts

    He could have lost WV 2018 and LSU 2019 and he'd still be coach. Losing to Maryland 2 years in a row and TCU 2 years in a row is inexcusable.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. caryhorn

    caryhorn 5,000+ Posts

    LOL^^^. This made me laugh and lifted my mood. Thanks Wadster, I needed a mood boost and this did it!
     
  8. WorsterMan

    WorsterMan 10,000+ Posts

    No, read what i said and what didn't say. He was the starter where his record was 27-16. His losses while he was the starter were not all "pinned" on him. He gets the loss like the starting pitcher. I was only trying to point out that (I used the word many) were caused by factors other than bad decisions, poor execution, turnovers, etc. by Sam.

    KB Baker identified about 10 of those 16 losses that were not the fault of Sam. Maybe you say those 10 are generous, but what if it is 7-8 games? 35-8 with TH as coach was a very decent record.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
  9. moondog_LFZ

    moondog_LFZ 2,500+ Posts

    But Peter the Great never lost to Blow U.
    That makes up for a lot. :)
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Chop

    Chop 5,000+ Posts

    Not being ironic. In agreement. I'd say the # of losses under Sam--that were not Sam's fault--is actually north of 10. Over his whole career, the number of losses that can be fairly attributed to Sam could probably be counted on one hand. The play calling didn't help. The blocking didn't help. The receivers standing around while he was scrambling didn't help (this one especially bothered me). etc.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Detective Shilala

    Detective Shilala 2,500+ Posts


    I would also bet that about a dozen of his wins were games where he had to put the team on his back and carry them to a victory.

    I think the consensus we have reached here is that Sam was a bright spot in an otherwise bad football program led by a bad HC and tutored by an even worse OC . He had the talent and could have had a much better record at almost any other major university with a football team with a pulse.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  12. Chop

    Chop 5,000+ Posts

    Exactly. Sam was our one man gang on many an occasion.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Vol Horn 4 Life

    Vol Horn 4 Life 5,000+ Posts

    Incomplete Pete....I never miss an opportunity to call him that. Beating OU 4 times was awesome, but I never understood Peter the Great. He was very mediocre outside of OU.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. horninchicago

    horninchicago 10,000+ Posts

    I thought it was only attributed to the 4 wins over ou.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  15. Ajo Macho

    Ajo Macho 250+ Posts

    Win half of those and he's still the coach.

    You could argue he only needed one more win in 2020, either TCU or ISU, and he'd still be here. 9-4 would've been his second-best win total, his win totals in four years would be 7-10-8-9 (generally trending upward), and if the one additional win were over ISU, that would've put us in the Big XII Championship game.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. Horns11

    Horns11 5,000+ Posts

    Yeah, if he wins those 10, he's arguably the greatest coach we've ever had with an .840 win percentage.

    This obviously had more to do with the state of the team and personnel than anything else. Watching how much promise slipped away, whether it was because of malcontents or negative recruiters or hand-holders or interfering donors or whatever, was too much to bear, even if we had beaten TCU or ISU or whoever.

    We showed flashes under TH's watch, but those moments never occurred consistently enough in mediocre stretches of games (like mid-level conference opponents) to make anyone fear us at half the tic that Mack's teams were, even in down years like 2003 or 2007.
     
  17. horninchicago

    horninchicago 10,000+ Posts

    I maintain that Texas could have gone undefeated last year (HA!!! What a laugh) and TH would have been gone, anyway, due to his Summer douchebaggery aimed at the fanbase.

    But, that will probably hurt some feelings around here.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  18. n64ra

    n64ra 1,000+ Posts

    Not a fan of measuring that way since Sam had more games to play than previous QBs. For example,
    Texas with Gardre had 45 games between '89 and '93.
    Texas with Ehlinger had 50 games between '17 and '20, and it would have been more without COVID. That's over a 10% increase in games played!

    I see Texas lost 19 of those 45 games between '89 and '93 and that Gardre played in 44 games. Wikipedia says he started in 41 games meaning there's 3 he 'just played in'.

    I can't tell which game he missed, which 3 he 'just played in,' and which 41 he started.

    I guess I can deduce from your comment that Gardre can at most be at 15 losses, which means the 4 he didn't start are all losses. Alternatively, sports-reference.com or Wikipedia could have typos.
     
  19. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada Winebibber

    Much like Eric Metcalf, to give another example from an earlier time period.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  20. WorsterMan

    WorsterMan 10,000+ Posts

    Yes, this particularly galled me...
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  21. Pomspoms

    Pomspoms 2,500+ Posts

    I didn't think Ash was bad.
    And Sam was better than average.
     
  22. SabreHorn

    SabreHorn 5,000+ Posts

    The people at Friday Night Lights thought Peter was a pretty good QB
     
  23. Detective Shilala

    Detective Shilala 2,500+ Posts

    Poms I agree Ash was not bad but we only had him for one year.
    And I agree Sam ended his career with kind of a mixed resume. He broke a lot of school records, but he also didn’t progress in many aspects of his game.
    His leadership and intensity made him special though.
    I just have to wonder what could have been if he had better coaching.
    TH was very stubborn in his usage of Sam and his strengths.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  24. Chop

    Chop 5,000+ Posts

    Ash suffered from even worse blocking than Sam had for most of his time. If I recall correctly, Ash left for medical (concussion-related) reasons. It's a wonder they both weren't knocked silly and left talking like Muhammad Ali in his later days.
     
  25. beijinghorn1

    beijinghorn1 500+ Posts

    I never quite understood the Sam is a great leader (sorry don´t mean to aggrevate everyone). I can never in a million years picture Vince Young (who I consider a great leader) being abandoned by all of his teammates if he chose to sing the Eyes of Texas in the same situation. I highly respect Sam for staying out there by himself and I consider him to have outstanding qualities such as personal strength, morals, etc..., but I have always thought that if he was a great leader, most of the team would have been standing next to him or at least his linemen. I am probably wrong.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  26. RainH2burntO

    RainH2burntO 2,500+ Posts

    I'm not sure what comment I might make in regards to this^^^^, but I will say you shouldn't feel bad for critiquing one of our QBs, popular or not. I've noticed many people around here have a strange, and very personal, defensive response to any suggestion that the QB they love isn't perfect. The fact is, Sam was very likable, tough as nails, gave his all, and was the right representative of UT as a QB for the time in history within which he played.
    He racked up stats due to the length of time he played and the style popularized and utilized during his tenure, and as a result of determination and talent....but there was plenty lacking in his game and progress.
    Could he have won more with more consistent defense, better coaching, or other on the field circumstances?
    Probably so...but that is true for 95% of all college QBs and in no way negates his flaws or shortcomings. These things are not mutually exclusive. Most of the positive things being said about Sam are true...but he had plenty of flaws...and, more disconcertingly, didn't seem to get markedly stronger in those particular areas.
    This same group of posters who won't acknowledge any of Sam's shortcomings would go nuts if anyone criticized Shane, though he did very little on the field while here.....but was a likable team guy with a good attitude- and pedigree.
    I don't get all the love is blind protection of your favored QB. It is perfectly possible to love, root for, support, encourage, and cheer for a college QB while still having eyes wide open and recognizing their shortcomings or areas they need to improve....at least it is for some of us.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2021
  27. ViperHorn

    ViperHorn 10,000+ Posts

    He didn't progress last season because he was hurt in the Tceh game and never recovered.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  28. horninchicago

    horninchicago 10,000+ Posts

    I’d submit that his injuries were directly linked to ****** schemes and OL coaching/play.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  29. ViperHorn

    ViperHorn 10,000+ Posts

    Your submission is noted and agreed upon.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Hot Hot x 1
  30. SabreHorn

    SabreHorn 5,000+ Posts

    Are trying to tell me we had any "schemes" and/or "coaching"
     
    • Hot Hot x 1

Share This Page