Has Strong Lost Longhorn Nation?

Discussion in 'On The Field' started by dukesteer, Sep 5, 2015.

  1. Brad Austin

    Brad Austin 2,500+ Posts

    Mack Brown produced five 9+ win seasons before Vince and Colt ever took a snap. He also claimed winning seasons with several QB's here.

    Teddy B wasn't just a good QB for Strong and Watson, he was an elite talent and carried that offense once he gained experience. Which is why he started and had the best season of any rookie QB in the pros.

    Without him I doubt very seriously Louisville would've done what they did in his 2 experienced years....the only non 6-loss seasons of CS's coaching career.

    Without Teddy B at QB, Strong's coaching record is 15-14.
     
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  2. rattfatt

    rattfatt 500+ Posts

    And what did those teams have in common, they had really good players around the Quarterback. Again, go and look at the talent that were on those Louisville teams. Guys were still getting drafted in this past years draft from Louisville that Coach Strong recruited. That's why a coach can win with a weak armed Major Applewhite, because he had really good talent around him. By the way, I forgot to add that Chris Simms was the #1 player in the country coming out of high school.

    So, whether it was at Unc or Texas, the teams that Mack Brown had were successful those years with Applewhite and the rest who weren't Vince or Colt because there was really good talent across the board on those teams, just like what Coach Strong had at Louisville with Bridgewater.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2015
  3. Brad Austin

    Brad Austin 2,500+ Posts

    Not disagreeing with the overall just of your point. I'm aware Louisville also played stern defense those 2 years. Just that all those other coaches have succeeded without an elite QB running the show. I'm still waiting on our guy.

    What I do know is one game in and I'm still seeing a confused, half-*** effort by a bunch of players who look lost and not bought in to the toughness we hear so much about. That is the fault of the coaches, and a team's attitude certainly is a reflection of it's head coach.

    The last 3 games we've looked more like Texas St. than Texas. Three routes with little resistance or fight is completely unacceptable coaching for this university.
     
  4. rattfatt

    rattfatt 500+ Posts

    All I can say is that coaches aren't miracle workers. In order to win you have to have talent. You brought up Mack Brown winning with different Quarterbacks other than Vince or Colt. Well, why couldn't he do it with Gilbret like he did with Simms or with Ash like he did with Applewhite. I'll tell you why, because he didn't have the talent around Gilbret, Ash or Case Mccoy that he did with Simms or Applewhite. No Roy Williams, Mike Williams, BJ Johnson or on defense Derrick Johnson.

    Think about that, those were just a couple of great players who played with Applwhite and Simms. Now, go and look at the players who played with Gilbret, Ash or Case Mccoy at the same positions. In order to win it takes talent, and right now there is just not very much on this roster, at least not really good experienced talent.
     
  5. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    In Mack's last season everyone kept saying that we had boatloads of talent and "just anyone could come in and do a better job" (real hornfans quote). When Mack is gone, suddenly we have no talent and the coaches are doing the best they can do. I just find this interesting is all.
     
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  6. rattfatt

    rattfatt 500+ Posts

    I certainly wasn't one of those people saying there was boatloads of talent. In my opinion the reason that the program is where it's at is because Mack Brown did a horrible job of recruiting really good players when they stepped foot on the field, not on paper or what some recruiting service said. Just go back and look at the roster for 2005 team, then look at the one that Mack Brown left last year and the one this year. It tells you everything you need to know.
     
  7. Joe Texas

    Joe Texas 25+ Posts

    That was one loss by a very inexperienced team against the best team we'll see all year. Strong came in and gutted the team; this is a major rebuilding year. What'd you expect? Give this team time to improve and save judgment for the end of the season.
     
  8. shaggy refuge

    shaggy refuge 500+ Posts

    There is no comparing Louisville and Texas. I'm sick of hearing it. Louisville is a second tier team with zero hope of ever winning a MNC. They also play far more inferior talent than UT. Just stop it. Strong is in over his head and always was-so is Patterson!
     
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  9. texas_ex2000

    texas_ex2000 2,500+ Posts

    Uhh...pretty freaking good. They were one game away from playing in another MNC in 2001. Hell, in the year Mack got the boot, he way playing for a Big 12 championship with Case McCoy as his QB.

    And the Mackovic talent argument... Mackovic went 4-7 with that talent, MB went 9-3 with the same talent. And for the grief you guys give MB about the o-line, the defensive talent (or lack thereof) in '98 was the equal.

    So what does a great coach do? He just goes out in his first year and recruit two studs, the number 1 offensive player, Simms, and number 1 defensive player in the country, Redding. Strong hasn't brought in anyone near that level.

    And let's not pretend that VY and Colt were Unitas candidates when they first got here. VY couldn't hit the side of a barn with his shortstop delivery, and Colt always had to ask Jordan to open his spaghettio jars because he was a weakling. They got better and coaching was a huge part of that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2015
  10. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    Charlie Strong never won an outright conference title at Louisville. He was co-champs 2 years and failed to win it his last year. His BCS bowl win over Florida is impressive, but he was coaching against now fired Muschampion who was in over his head as a head coach. Strong also benefited from being in a dying Big East. While he was there, Syracuse, Pittsburgh and West Virginia left the conference. His wins went up as they were replaced with U of H, Memphis, etc. Whatever Texas's talent situation is, Strong had way more talent at Louisville than his competition in the Big East almost every game. People keep talking about his resume, but the man never won an outright conference title. In 2010 he lost to Pittsburgh and West Virginia. In 2011 he lost to Pittsburgh. In 2012, West Virginia left the conference and he lost to Syracuse. In 2013, Pittsburgh, Syracuse and West Virginia were all gone, and he lost to Central Florida at home.

    Honestly though none of the above matters. What matters is what Coach Strong does moving forward. There are 11 opportunities to turn it around on the schedule.
     
  11. rattfatt

    rattfatt 500+ Posts

    Didn't you read what I posted right after that when I talked about what he did at UNC and UT? And did this great coach all of a sudden forget how to coach, when this program went in the crapper 5 years ago and hasn't recovered since. No, he just did a horrible job of evaluating talent, which is why he left this program as if it got hit by an F5 tornado.

    And again, give me the names of the really good jr/sr players on this team that might be high draft picks or get drafted at all, there's probably one, Johnathan Gray might get drafted. And why do I bring that up, because the jr and sr's are the players Mack Brown left, a bunch of garbage.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2015
  12. Horngal12

    Horngal12 100+ Posts

    We had some when he came in here: Shipley, Hicks, J Gray etc. Cupboard wasn't empty. Excuses, excuses :)
     
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  13. rattfatt

    rattfatt 500+ Posts

    You might not be very smart, talent is talent. The teams that Coach Strong had would have slapped those Mack Brown coached teams that where being coached at the same time up and down the field. Also, all those NFL teams who took all those Louisville players would agree with me, not you. We sure could use a player like Devante Parker, who got drafted in the first round from Louisville this past year. Coach Strong recruited the kid to Louisville. When is the last time we had a wide receiver drafted in the first round? I know the answer, i'm just making a my point.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2015
  14. rattfatt

    rattfatt 500+ Posts

    What's your point, none of those players are nowhere near the caliber of Ricky Williams or Johnny Manziel. Do you remember, they both won heisman trophies? Also, do you remember the only decent Quaterback with any kind of real experince got a concussion in the first game of the season, and had to give up football before his brain turned into mush, those are Facts!
     
  15. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    I disagree with this very unprovable opinion. Mack HAD NO PROBLEM shutting down Shawn Watson at Colorado and Nebraska. He was either 7-1 or 6-1 against him and his only loss was the 2001 Simms conference title where all but 10 or something of colorado's points came from interceptions.
     
  16. SabreHorn

    SabreHorn 10,000+ Posts

    Come on 77, can't you remember that all world DL taken by the Kirby Kretin Korp in the first round. WOW, he was something special, for the 8 or 10 games he played in his NFL career. (No he didn't get hurt.)

    Charlie Strong's teams performed really well against Little Sisters of the Poor, New Mexico Body & Fender, Tennessee School for the Blind, and the rest of the ******** conference they were in. Throw in ZERO academic standards and/or requirements, and ask if he "coached them up" or they were already at that level but ignored because real schools couldn't get them admitted? Loserville is what it is, a crappy little city college like Memphis, Cincinnati, University of Third Ward.
     
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  17. rattfatt

    rattfatt 500+ Posts

    What the hell does that have to do with anything? Shawn Watson had better players, as evidenced by the number of players that where drafted in the NFL. Also that 2013 Texas team got blown out by every good team that they played, outside of OU. But it is funny that you would bring up the biggest choke job in Mack Brown's career. Who was the Quaterback for Colorado? I think his name was Bobby Pasavento, now, that's embarrassing.
     
  18. utempire

    utempire 1,000+ Posts

    Of course you need talent around the QB. You also need a QB that can make quick/good decisions. You put Applewhite against ND he would complete at least half his passes and the game would have been respectable. At least have a game manager and we don't even have that with Swoopes. You put Swoopes in for Applewhite back then there would be many more losses. Simms was a good QB but never came close to beating ou. I feel bad for Swoopes because I know he's trying his best on the field. I don't think he's a student of the game though.
     
  19. rattfatt

    rattfatt 500+ Posts

    You're not very smart either i see, once again, i'll just let the NFL do the talking for me, go look it up. Also the same people who talk about making excuses are doing just that with the academic standards excuse. There are athletes who get into UT who aren't very book smart every single day. Hell, Jamaal Charles got into UT with a learning disability. But some of you can continue to look stupid by trying to argue or debate against facts and commen senes. I will just continue to shut you down.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2015
  20. Badass

    Badass 2,500+ Posts

    Prolly should stay away from personal attacks, just sayin
     
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  21. rattfatt

    rattfatt 500+ Posts

    What personal attacks, some of you keep trying to dabate or argue with facts. But some people can continue to do so, but understand it's going to be about 2 more years before this program does anything thanks to Mack Brown and the lack of talent he left Coach Strong.Facts!
     
  22. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    Actually this is an opinion FYI
     
  23. SabreHorn

    SabreHorn 10,000+ Posts

    I never said that we didn't take kids that were below border line. Hell, I recruited Butch Hadnot - have we ever had anyone score that low? I am saying and stand by the fact the Loserville has always gotten kids in school that couldn't go elsewhere other than juco. That may change now that they have joined the ACC.

    Are you aware that Loserville offered to pay FSU $25 million to bring them to the Big XII?

    I'll try to go buy "commen sense" tomorrow if Walmart or Walgreens has any in stock.

    Whatever your problem is, this is a Tier 2 staff at best and belongs back in the Tier 3 school they came from.
     
  24. SabreHorn

    SabreHorn 10,000+ Posts

    I think you left out a "0" - make that 20 years to recover from Bill Powers and KornFairy.

    As for the talent level, there was plenty of pure talent, but Brown and Puppy Dog Lard *** left them soft and with an entitlement attitude, rendering them somewhat, and in many cases, useless.
     
  25. Brad Austin

    Brad Austin 2,500+ Posts

    Mack Brown inherited a 4-7 program and went 9-3 his first time out with many of those same players who couldn't produce 5 wins the year before. This whole "he had great players" which is why he succeeded argument is paying a huge disservice to the importance of good coaching.

    Bottom line is Mack Brown walked out of here 8-5 and left Charlie a ton of returning starters from that team. How Charlie ran his program is his own doing, just as the results are of his own doing. Last I checked 6-8 is worse than 8-5. We were a much better team in 2013 compared to what I saw in South Bend...much better.
     
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  26. old65horn

    old65horn 1,000+ Posts

    What makes you so sure that is the best team we will see all year?
     
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  27. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    Rattfatt, your assumption is that Charlie Strong with 5 years of coaching experience MUST be a good coach and we are losing because the players are not talented. You need to consider that this assumption is not a fact and it is possible the players are talented and the coaching staff is not skilled. It is also possible the players are not talented AND the coaching staff is not skilled

    What do you think about the fact that Charlie Strong had more players drafted than anyone in his conference at Louisville and never won an outright conference title? This is a fact based question. He had far more NFL draft picks than UCF, yet UCF beat him on his home field in 2013.


    2013 Louisville Schedule with opponents records
    Louisville 49 Ohio (7-6) 7
    Louisville 44 Eastern Kentucky (FCS 6-6) 7
    Louisville 27 Kentucky (2-10) 13
    Louisville 72 Florida International (1-11) 0
    Louisville 30 Temple (2-10) 7
    Louisville 24 Rutgers (6-7) 10
    Louisville 35 UCF (12-1) 38
    Louisville 34 USF (2-10) 3
    Louisville 31 Uconn (3-9) 10
    Louisville 20 Houston (8-5) 13
    Louisville 24 Memphis (3-9) 17
    Louisville 31 Cincinnati (9-4) 24 OVERTIME
    Louisville 36 Miami, Florida (9-4) 9

    2013 Texas with Manny Diaz probably loses to 2013 Louisville. 2013 Texas with Greg Robinson probably beats Louisville. It's amazing Strong did not go undefeated with that schedule and all of those NFL draft picks.

    Also Charlie Strong set the all time record going back to 1893 for 20+ point losses in a single season last year. He also set the record for home losses by 20+ points in a single season last year. In fact, if he has one more home loss by 20+ points, he will tie Mack Brown (4) for the most in school history. Mack's record happened over 16 years with the first coming in 2007. Charlie Strong is also only 3 20+ losses away from tying David McWilliams (9) for 20+ point losses all time. McWilliams had 9 over 5 seasons. We are 1 game into year 2 with Charlie Strong. The talent is not so bad, that we should be blown out 43% of the time under charlie strong and be ranked 121 out of 121 teams in total offense.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2015
  28. rattfatt

    rattfatt 500+ Posts

    Huh, what's your point, Texas has athletes who should be in juco right now. This is big time college athletics, if your a big time program you have guys who should be at a juco. Texas isn't an ivy league school or Stanford when it comes to admissions.
     
  29. SabreHorn

    SabreHorn 10,000+ Posts

    A small fact since you are all about facts - Stanford has NEVER had a football player flunk out of school. This is something the athletic department and alumni brag about.

    No, I am not saying we have kids that belong in juco, rather than I am not using admissions as an excuse, That's for the ACC elite. I am saying that Loserville played a ******** schedule and couldn't win a conference championship, and that they played with players that the ACC & SEC passed on because of their admission policies. Regardless of academics, Loserville (Petrino in particular) was able to identify quality talent and develop them. Not sure why this staff can't take more talented kids and develop them, but thus far it isn't happening.

    I once told David that I would donate $10,000 to any major program that would hire one of assistants after he resigned. Not there with this group yet, but not far from it.
     
  30. rattfatt

    rattfatt 500+ Posts

    Why are you showing this irrelevant garbage, once again ask any scout or anyone associated with college football what would happen. I know some of you love Mack Brown because he's your fellow aarp brethern, but you have to let it go.
     

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