Rev. Wright Blames "Them Jews" for Keeping President From Talking to Him Really, 20 something years of listening to this guy? The Link
Wow, what a suprise. I can only guess that people were just willfuly ignorant when it came to sizing up Obama's character. 20 YEARS!!! of this sort of stuff came out of Wright's pulpit. I remember during my two years of living in Hyde Park that he was well known for old school race baiting. Obama the media generated blur is certainly more appealing the Obama the man from Chicago, this I know from living in his hometown for a long time.
You tried to impugn Obama with this guy's words during the election, and it didn't work. You might notice they are two different people, a hard concept to grasp, I know.
How can Obama's 20-year attendance at Wright's church not be considered, at least to some degree, tacit approval of Wright's ideology? How does one rationalize that? I'm willing to listen if there's a good explanation. But what could that explanation be? I'll offer one: I doubt that Obama agrees with very many of these statements by Wright. Nor does he disagree with them. He's simply a creature of political instinct. It was politically expedient to attend that church for a time, and when it became inexpedient, he denounced it (though it might be said that he was slow to appreciate the change from expedience to non-expedience in this case). He didn't suddenly come to the realization that Wright was saying these things, nor did he suddenly come to the realization that the content of Wright's speech was at odds with his ethical principles. But he did suddenly come to the realization that it would hurt him politically if he didn't distance himself. And so he did. The longer it goes, the more I see Obama as a political mercenary. He's not liberal. He's not conservative. He's not anything ideological. He's pure politician, unburdened by any belief, whether it be belief in God or in party or in economic theory or in philosophy. To whatever degree he's a socialist, or a liberal, or a communist, or a moderate, or anything else, it's only to the degree that it will further his own advancement in the world. I'm certainly not saying he's alone in that. But he's been the most successful of his generation in applying that formula, which is why he's now president. Seriously, if he really believes the things he says he believes, there's no way he would have stayed at that church. But he doesn't believe them. He never has. He doesn't believe anything. Well, that's one theory for why Obama stayed at the church. But I'm willing to listen to others.
I think coel is probably pretty close to dead on. And for what it's worth, there are plenty of people who darken a pew every Sunday with no real concept or care about religion, spirituality or agreement with what's being taught. Obama wouldn't be the first religious hypocrite to come down the pike, and he certainly won't be the last.
Who here goes to a church where they disagree with the preacher and with what the preacher stands for and preaches?
Since about 50% of Catholics are pro-choice according to polls I have read, I would say there are a large number of people who don't agree with all the rhetoric they hear in church. They might believe the church teaches good values from the Bible, does good charitable work helping the poor, and finds value in the passages discussed on a weekly basis. It doesn't mean you buy into everything a certain church or minister believes.
nah....the marriage, the book title, the 20 years in the hate-monger's pew....none of that matters. Nor do his anti-Jewish feelings. None of Wright's charismatic venom, anti-Western ideology, or anti-Semitic philosophy ever affected Obama. Wright simply couldn't have influenced Obama in a negative way. No one could -- it's Barack, man. Just be cool -- don't ask questions or think about it.
Coel and Octo offer really the only two plausible alternatives as to why Barack Obama attended Wright’s “church” (1) the cynical – “It was politically expedient to attend that church for a time, and when it became a inexpedient, he denounced it” or (2) he was a true believer – 20 years attendance “every Sunday, 11 o’clock”, the book title, the marriage and baptism of his daughters. You’d have to be pretty cyncial to claim the guy inspired the title of your presidential platform book, and also get married by and expose your children to someone you privately held contempt for, but rationalize it all by political expendiency. I do offer one alternative, it’s just a hunch and I don’t have any links to support it, but I think we have to look at Mama Obama (Michelle). She seems to be a believer of Wright (never been proud of America, bars constantly being moved, her Princeton thesis and her never-ending list of grievances). I think we can all agree that Michelle wears the colloquial pants of the family, and if Mama says “we’re going to Wright’s church,” you can be damn sure that's where they were going, and if Mama says that Wright is going to perform their wedding and baptize their kids, then that’s what is going to happen. Just a theory, I could be wrong. And to be clear, this is allwhetherHorn, not allweatherHorn, which should have been obvious as there was no trademark gratuitous cheap shot at Christianity contained herein.
My Catholic parents, who are in their 60's, have changed churches a couple of times over the years because of the priest. And I don't believe that it was ever for reasons as drastic as race-baiting.
Wright is a scumbag. I don't really know why Obama didn't leave the church earlier, but I also don't know the content of Wright's sermons when Obama attended. A lot of what I've heard Wright say is out-there and controversial, but not crazy enough to walk out on if one finds value in his religious guidance. Some of what I've heard from him certainly is that offensive. If Obama heard him preach anti-semitic or other bigoted comments, there really is no excuse for staying. Without direct evidence, though, I can't know one way or the other.
Rev. Wright is a product of organized religion. If you can believe in virgin births, talking snakes and orders from above to kill your kids, you can certainly believe "the Jews" are to blame for all earthly troubles -- very likely, there is a Bible verse somewhere that supports that view. (for you, allwhetherhorn)
My thinking is along the lines of MTF's. I don't know what Obama was hearing in church. I don't know how much the national attention has changed Wright's message. I also think we see what we are looking for. Some of us are looking for a closet radical who secretly despises America, some of us are looking for a good man with a new voice offering new leadership. In seeking only what we are looking for, we often focus too narrowly on a single aspect of the object of our gaze. What has Obama done that aligns him with Wright's more despicable utterances?
So how many Catholics around the world do you think hear the church's official line on birth control every week, yet go home and use birth control? Attending a church is cultural, it is social, it is moral teaching, it is Sunday school for the kids, or adult Sunday school classes, and then there's the weekly sermon. You don't find many people who agree with every word a minister states-much of it is to provoke thought and debate. I'm sure Obama wishes this guy would just shut up, but I don't know if what he heard earlier had any effect on him while sitting in church or not. Most likely it went in one ear and out the other, like it does for many of us. Some things heard at church affect you, make you more interested in reading up on some issue, forming your opinion as to the morality of an issue, but I don't think too many people accept everything said there, unless they are in a cult.
i agree with you, accurate. did you feel the same way under george w. bush or did you just realize this recently?
Accurate, c'mon... If Bush was attending KKK rallies in the name of God do you think people would say, "Well, he doesn't really believe the things they say."
