I Keep Hearing That We Have the Worst O-Line in College History

I believe our recruiting and coaching is improving going forward. We ran the zone read for a long time, which isn't exactly power blocking. Depending on the conference you're in dictates what your offensive style is (and I guess defensive style as well). No matter what our current "style" is, we're doing it with younger, less experienced, perhaps not as well-touted linemen. Over the last few games (hopefully a bowl included), I think we'll see these guys mesh better and better (stay healthy please), maybe get some of the injured guys back....Next year will be a better sample to look at. There'll be no more "getting to know each other" type of situations. Texas has had troubles since the Alabama NC game. I believe Herman and crew will bring back what Mack helped bring back and maintain. It's just not going to happen overnight, especially considering the injuries suffered on the offensive line.

 

I think Vahe is the only one of this group right now that we had confidence in preseason.
I don't think it's the worst in CFB history, nor have I heard that until this thread.

Still, it's an obvious weakness overall. Undeniable regardless of coaching.

Top OL 2015 Recruiting class.
Patrick Vahe - starter
Connor Williams - missed 6 games

Top OL 2016 Recruiting class...
Patrick Hudson - out for the year
Jean Delance - transferred

I think those hurt us.

 

It was me.

When I came to in the ER, I was so doped up I was saying all kinds of crazy things:

• "Give Charlie one more year."
• "Dion loves cats."
• "Aggys are people, too."
  
• "I'm funny. No, really."
• "We have the worst offensive line in college football history."

Bad times.

 

I use to be a lineman in high school. It's not that complicated. Just keep the man in front of you from making the play. It's more about strength and balance and dogged determination than anything else.If your man circles away from you while you are passing blocking then wait for another defensive guy to try to come through you or help someone else.

 

That explains a lot.

Maybe when the entire high school offense consisted of dive left, dive right, sweep left, sweep right, option left, option right, QB sneak, your point would stand. There is a hell of a lot more to it these days, and any moderately engaged fan really should understand that.

 

Welcome to the board, Derek Warehime

 

ok uisge, ya got me. Although a supposed longhorn fan, didn't know who Derek Warehime was.......so, would anyone agree that just because you're 18 or 19 and have mad o-line skills, that, maybe, if the defense you're playing has upperclassmen with equal or better skills (and strength?) that, you could be outmatched until you gain strength and collegiate experience?

 

OLs "blocking air," especially our OGs, has been happening for years

 

As fans we get so spoiled. I remember some of the great Greg Davis lines and their talent for pointing at air pre-snap. How can you call it anything but progress that we've moved on to blocking it?

 

ouch^

 

The thing about OLs blocking air and not going and looking for someone to block was pointed out by Dan Neil as well.

 

Exactly. I don’t know why this is not obvious to all. On a play last week their three forced Shane out of the pocket to the right and he was sacked close to the sideline by, you guessed it, one of their THREE linemen.
Some of these kids on the line are young and undersized. Some are just not real good. I agree with Tom that this is not an overnight fix.

 

This type of play (do what is called for and nothing else) is prevalent in OL, receiver and DB play. I do not remember it as widespread in Mack's later years, but most of Strong's recruits (except Williams and Shackelford) at these positions seemingly play this way. Unfortunately it seems that the only way to cure this type of play is to sit the player. Right now, except at receiver, Herman doesn't have that option.

 

Amazing how open a middle screen to the RB would have been on that play. Or how helpful it would have been to have an RB at all, even if he was back there blocking.

Not that 5-wide is always bad, but removing from ourselves the option to have the RB to help block and the option to have him receive a screen isn't really worth it to add a 5th WR to the formation when that 5th WR is Brewer or Leonard.

 

I remember watching Iowa St vs. Tech and ISU did this every play -- they dropped 8 every single play. TTU had no answer even though they knew exactly what ISU was going to do on defense every single play. The result was the rare road win for ISU.
So while it happens to other teams, a good OC could scheme/play call around that.

 

I dont like picking on one guy because obviously it is a much larger issue than just him, but if you have been watching Vahe over the years, he blocks as much air as any OL I've ever seen. It's frsutrating to watch. It seems like he spends half the game alone. What is weird to me is that he can be a pretty ferocious run blocker when he has a clear target. And he has shown ability to get execute his first assignment and get to the second level (he did this as a freshman even). IMO at least, he is also pretty decent at pulling (again as long as he has clear idea of who he is supposed to block). It makes you want to point to scheme.

 

Not sure about this
Could be Cosmi or Okafor or a freshman
Williams is a longshot to stay but as of today its possible

 

Actually I'd agree with this. It was interesting to hear how many people were talking about him as a plus contributor going into the fall, despite not really having done more than played acceptably as a backup. I'm sure he'll be solid, but not sure he is in position to be a bell cow.

 

At this juncture, "solid" would be a huge plus.

 

We are worst in the conference in sacks allowed
In sacks per game, we are significantly worse than even Baylor, Kansas and Tech
ISU (mid-tier in passing attempts) is second in the Big 12 in this category. Interesting given the rankings of the OL recruits they get versus who we get

http://www.cfbstats.com/2017/leader/25354/team/defense/split01/category20/sort01.html

 

Joe, you know on the other thread where you mentioned there were several specific OLs that you assumed/hoped would never see the field?

I wonder with teams that get 4* recruits that they take more runners on lower level "good guys" and legacies. Then when you get several 4* transfers and injuries, you're stuck.
Whereas teams with no coaching changes/transfers that don't live in the 4* and 5* environment never takes runners, because they want every single 3* to see the field. It might not be a top line, but it should always be solid.

I wonder if it shows a hole in our OL recruiting philosophy the last 3 or 4 recruiting cycles.

 

What do you mean by "take more runners"?

 

betting term, i think, meaning put some money down on a risky horse that is not a favorite, because of the high return.

i think some 3* are 3* because of potential and some are 3* because they are solid, good, probably never great talents.

 

Although no doubt we have had unprecedented attrition in the O-Line this year, I think it is reasonable to factor coaching effectiveness into the discussion. While I really cannot assess Warehime's skill set, my sense is that Wickline was special. He seemed to get more out of less than most O-Line coaches.

For the future, assuming that we can coach them up, I believe 2018 looks promising. We have quality recruits on the shelf, plus maturing players coming back. Baring a repeat of the bad luck we experienced this year, the line next year should be good, perhaps very good.

 

It's true, its a long story that I think goes back to 2013 even though the problems go back much further (see the lack of UT draft picks on the OL).

2013: 2013 was the last time anyone thought we had a good OL. Going into that season, Phil Steele said we had the best OL in football, with Harrison, Hawkins, Espinosa, Walters and Cochran, plus Hopkins and Flowers. The 2013 OL class looked great on paper too with 5-star Darius James, 4-star Rami Hammad, 4-star Kent Perkins, 4-star Jake Raulerson and JUCO Desmond Harrison. So, at this point in time, the OL looked to be in very good shape. Some of those recruits could even be RS Seniors now, but nothing went as planned. The team went 8-5, losing to Oregon in the Alamo Bowl. And Mack Brown lost his job.
2013 Recruiting:
James the 5-star left in 2015 after playing in only 6 games
Harrison was a highly ranked JUCO OT who was once thought to be NFL quality, but he also quickly got on Strong's bad side
Perkins made it to 2016 but got a DWI. He moved to OG from OT but played at or near an All Conference level
Hammad was considered a "late addition jewel" of that class. But he couldnt get along with Wickline (even though Wickline had recruited him to OSU). He transferred
Raulerson could not get along with Wickline either and transferred

What has happened since 2013 has been bad coaching hires, bad coaching, personality conflicts, bad schemes, changing schemes, bad recruiting decisions, lack of continuity, lack of an adequate QB and bad luck with injuries.

2014: The offense was Shawn Watson's who tried multiple schemes. The QBs were Ash then Swoopes. The 2014 OL did not start well with Joe Wickline moving players around and having trouble picking starters. The most senior was Espinosa at center, followed by Sed Flowers, Kent Perkins, Kennedy Estelle and Desmond Harrison. But Espinosa got hurt, Harrison was suspended and Strong got rid of Estelle. Curtis Riser and Rami Hammad also left. The OL lineup changed almost every week. The team ended up 6-7, losing to Ark in the Texas bowl. The offense was ranked 105th. We gave up 28 sacks (t-71st) and 86 TFLs loss (t-101st). Our offensive line has never really recovered from the starters lost during this transition.
2014 Recruiting: When Strong came on, the only OL committed was Terrell Cuney. Wickline added two more - Alex Anderson and Elijah Rodriguez (Jake McMillon was a DL recruit)
Cuney was the last Mack Brown recruit. An undersized OL only playing because of injury
Anderson has played in 7g. He was supposed to transfer years ago.
McMillon was moved over from the DL. Probably have gotten more out of him than we ever thought. Currently the starter at RG
Rodriguez was another 3-star Wickline flip special who has never started a game for us. He might have started this year but for injury. Some think, despite zero experience, he will replace Connor Williams in 2018. We will see.

2015: The offense was Jay Norvell's who went to the spread. The QBs were true freshman Heard and Swoopes. Former 5-star and top 5 in-state OT Darius James left before the season started. Wickline's 2015 OL left to right began as Marcus Hutchins, Sed Flowers, Taylor Doyle, Kent Perkins and true freshman Connor Williams, with very thin depth. By season's end, the best OLs were freshman Williams, freshman Vahe and Perkins. Nickelson may have been 4th best. The line did relatively well early but came apart when Perkins was lost in the OSU game.
The team finished 5-7. The 2015 offense ranked 100th. The passing offense was 105th with 32 sacks. This team did run block well though, finishing 25th in rush yards.
2015 Recruiting: The 2015 class gave us Ronnie Major, Garrett Thomas, Patrick Vahe, Connor Williams, JUCO Brandon Hodges and JUCO Tristan Nickelson.
Williams everyone knows
Vahe same
Hodges started 9g in 2016 but had grade issues, fell behind and later transferred. He woul dprobably be starting this weekend at RG or RT if they had got him to stay
Thomas was a 3-star who has played in 1g
Nickelson has the body of great OT but cant move well enough

2016: Wickline And Norvell were let go. Gilbert and Mattox were brought in. Gilbert ran his own version of the spread. True freshman Buechele was the primary QB. The primary returning OLs were Kent Perkins, Patrick Vahe and Connor Williams. The next guy was Brandon Hodges. True freshman and EE Zach Shackelford became the center.
But Mattox's OL was a revolving door with 10 different starting units in 12 games. In hindsight, retaining Raulerson (a starter at Ark in 2016), might have helped, but probably not enough. The offense ranked 62nd in both yards and passing yards, giving up 32 sacks again (among the worst again). The team finished 5-7 again. And Strong was fired.
2016 Recruiting: 2016 looked like a good class with 4-stars Patrick Hudson, Denzel Okafor, JP Urquidez, Jean Delance and 3-stars Zach Shackelford and Tope Imade.
Shack was an immediate starter due to need
Delance has aleady transferred (if he stayed, he would probably be starting now)
Hudson was a high 4-star we hoped might be an OT but he was moved to OG. Might still be a player
Okafor has the great long arms you want at tackle, and had great technique in HS but has been an overmatched so far
Imade has moved back and forth with the OL/DL, doesnt play
Urquidez has only played in a couple games

2017: New coaches all over. With Perkins gone, we thought the OL anchors would be Williams, Vahe, Shack and Hodges.
But Hodges was allowed to leave for Pitt, where he moved back to RT.
Delance transferred while Buck Major took a medical.
We lost Elijah Rodriguez in camp, who might have been the starter at RT.
Then Hudson hurt his knee in non-contact injury in Game 2. He was looking decent at OG. In hindsight, retaining Hodges would have helped here (if not RT where we also have issues)
Then Connor Williams hurt his knee in Game 3 (while not playing that well and it now looks like he is leaving as a Junior). The replacement probably would have been Rodriguez, which we maybe could have lived with but he was already out. Then it might have been Delance but he already left. So we tried Nickelson but he was getting our QBs killed. Next we tired Oakafor who is also bad just not quite as bad as Nickelson.
Then starting RG Jake McMillon got hurt. With Hudson already out, we tried the undersized Cuney but he got killed.
Then Shack, who kept having snap issues, got a concussion. His replacement is Cuney who is still getting knocked backward into our QBs.
Vahe teamed with Williams last season to create holes for Foreman. But they gave up a lot of sacks. This season, their run blocking has been poor and they still give up alot of sacks.
That is basically everyone. We have walk-on Graf as a backup. Anderson has had some decent PT but these coaches do not seem to trust him. JP Urquidez is not trusted either it appears. Thomas doesnt really play. Thus, Kerstetter plays (who they preferred to RS).
2017 Recruitng: In the 2017 class, missing on Walker Little was the single biggest story and looms even larger given the injuries. We did land two 3-stars Derek Kerstetter and Samuel Cosmi. Kerstetter was supposed to RS but now plays while Cosmi is a project who might take over at LT. We will see.

 

Solid group I guess, but nowhere close to best in the nation.

 

JF, outstanding recap, as usual. Based on the apparent unreliability of the rating services, it seems to me that the caliber and effectiveness of the talent has more to do with coaching and less with incoming credentials. CW seems like a perfect case study. Kerstetter might be the next case study from what I am reading.

Based on that assumption it would seem to me that we have plenty of prototypical or near prototypical bodies, enough to assemble a very good OL next year, with the caveat that it will depend upon how well they are coached.

I'll be interested in the perspective of others...

 

Steele's main stat for college lines is experience. And if we had gone into the 2013 season with everyone, at full health, we would have had the most experienced OL in the country, using games started.

 

We certainly have enough bodies for the interior OL. But we are in desperation mode at tackle. Hence the JUCO offers (see 2018 recruiting thread).

We still have room in this class (I would argue we are taking the full 25). I think we are at 18 now. We look great at DB, WR, QB and K. The 2 OLs we have so far also look good -- Reese Moore in particular is coming on. But we still need to add OTs, DLs (esp DTs) and LBs (+ another TE). I think we are going to finish with quality LBs, but the tackles on both sides are problematic.

 

Brief update to the long post above about the current OLs
Some roster spots are being created on the 2018 OL

Four Redshirt Junior OLs came out with the seniors for the Tech game. The implication is that they have or soon will complete their degree requirements and leave the football program
Herman said the only one of the four he was unsure about was McMillon.

Garrett Thomas - played in 1g for his career. I guess that was enough
Alex Anderson - played in 8g total
Terrell Cuney - Mack Brown legacy recruit who played 12g total on the career. I thought he might not play at all this season but several injuries later, he had his first semi-decent season playing in 8g, with a few starts. He even made some positive plays against WVU but, in general, was too small and got pushed backwards into our QBs and RBs
Jake McMillon - 32g total with 14 starts. He was a DL recruit, took RS in 2014 then played on the DL in 2015. Moved to OL in 2016 (5 starts). Played in 11g this season but with his hand in a cast part of those. Mostly an OG but has started at C when needed. Might come back for 2018