Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'On The Field' started by bck031, Jan 2, 2018.
Don't forget the boosters that paid players for work they did not do.
Also don't forget that Mayfield is a douchebag! Really, he's the model Sooner in a long line starting with Joe Don Looney.
Your right about Looney and that list has far too many names to remember but here are a few off the top of my head:
That would be via Big Red Motors in OK City...
Bob Stoops vs Mack Brown
94 1999 Dallas Texas (#23) 38–28
95 2000 Dallas Oklahoma (#10) 63–14
96 2001 Dallas Oklahoma (#3) 14–3
97 2002 Dallas Oklahoma (#2) 35–24
98 2003 Dallas Oklahoma (#1) 65–13
99 2004 Dallas Oklahoma (#2) 12–0
100 2005 Dallas Texas (#2) 45–12
101 2006 Dallas Texas (#7) 28–10
102 2007 Dallas Oklahoma (#10) 28–21
103 2008 Dallas Texas (#5) 45–35
104 2009 Dallas Texas (#3) 16–13
105 2010 Dallas Oklahoma (#8) 28–20
106 2011 Dallas Oklahoma (#3) 55–17
107 2012 Dallas Oklahoma (#13) 63–21
108 2013 Dallas Texas 36–20
Bob Stoops 9
Mack Brown 6
OU blows out Texas 4 times
Texas blows out OU 1 time
Head coaching record
Year Team Overall Conference Standing Bowl/playoffs Coaches# AP°
Oklahoma Sooners (Big 12 Conference) (1999–2016)
1999 Oklahoma 7–5 5–3 T–2nd (South) L Independence
2000 Oklahoma 13–0 8–0 1st (South) W Orange† 1 1
2001 Oklahoma 11–2 6–2 2nd (South) W Cotton 6 6
2002 Oklahoma 12–2 6–2 T–1st (South) W Rose† 5 5
2003 Oklahoma 12–2 8–0 1st (South) L Sugar† 3 3
2004 Oklahoma 12–1 8–0 1st (South) L Orange† 3 3
2005 Oklahoma 8–4 6–2 T–2nd (South) W Holiday 22 22
2006 Oklahoma 11–3 7–1 1st (South) L Fiesta† 11 11
2007 Oklahoma 11–3 6–2 1st (South) L Fiesta† 8 8
2008 Oklahoma 12–2 7–1 T–1st (South) L BCS NCG† 5 5
2009 Oklahoma 8–5 5–3 T–3rd (South) W Sun
2010 Oklahoma 12–2 6–2 T–1st (South) W Fiesta† 6 6
2011 Oklahoma 10–3 6–3 T–3rd W Insight 15 16
2012 Oklahoma 10–3 8–1 T–1st L Cotton 15 15
2013 Oklahoma 11–2 7–2 T–2nd W Sugar† 6 6
2014 Oklahoma 8–5 5–4 T–4th L Russell Athletic
2015 Oklahoma 11–2 8–1 1st L Orange† 5 5
2016 Oklahoma 11–2 9–0 1st W Sugar† 3 5
Oklahoma: 190–48 121–29
National championship Conference title Conference division title or championship game berth
†Indicates BCS or CFP / New Years' Six bowl.
#Rankings from final Coaches Poll.
°Rankings from final AP Poll.
Check out the quality of the bowl games Stoops took OU to. Check out the final ap rankings check out the wins vs losses.
Texas Longhorns (Big 12 Conference) (1998–2013)
1998 Texas 9–3 6–2 2nd (South) W Cotton 16 15
1999 Texas 9–5 6–2 1st (South) L Cotton 23 21
2000 Texas 9–3 7–1 2nd (South) L Holiday 12 12
2001 Texas 11–2 7–1 1st (South) W Holiday 5 5
2002 Texas 11–2 6–2 T–1st (South)^ W Cotton 7 6
2003 Texas 10–3 7–1 2nd (South) L Holiday 11 12
2004 Texas 11–1 7–1 2nd (South) W Rose† 4 5
2005 Texas 13–0 8–0 1st (South) W Rose† 1 1
2006 Texas 10–3 6–2 2nd (South) W Alamo 13 13
2007 Texas 10–3 5–3 2nd (South) W Holiday 10 10
2008 Texas 12–1 7–1 T–1st (South)^ W Fiesta† 3 4
2009 Texas 13–1 8–0 1st (South) L BCS NCG† 2 2
2010 Texas 5–7 2–6 6th (South)
2011 Texas 8–5 4–5 T–6th W Holiday
2012 Texas 9–4 5–4 T–3rd W Alamo 18 19
2013 Texas 8–5 7–2 T–2nd L Alamo
Texas: 158–48 98–33
Same number of losses over 3 less years coached. 32 more victories for Stoops over Mack. Sure Bob lost some big games, but he was at least in 'em, and didn't pout after he got his butt handed to him in a NCG, just went back to work each year trying to win the Big 12. When Mack was rolling holy cow was he rolling. But he got butt-hurt when Colt went down and Texas lost to Alabama, and you can see Texas back in Holiday/Alamo bowls or no bowls soon after.
I get tired of the cheaters/scumbag label Texas fans like to give Oklahoma. "Sure they win, but they CHEATED!" Well, folks, it's like holding, if it's not called, then it never happened. It won't happen, but let's say Bob was ready to coach again. Anyone think any program wouldn't jump at the chance? Mack lobbied for the ASU job, some thought Tennessee...why didn't that happen? Because no one thinks that Mack won a title without Vince, nobody thinks he regularly won conference titles (2 in 16 years).
Me “Mack was a better bowl coach and Stoops was a better regular season coach.” First off, I was responding to your “apples and oranges” statement. Comparing BCS bowl records and bowl records is apples to apples.
I was never even arguing about who was the better overall coach. I was just pointing it is a fact, Mack was a better postseason coach just like it is a fact that Stoops was a better regular season coach. Stoops won the head to head so hard to argue against Stoops, but I was not even arguing about that.
1. Stoops winning more conference titles literally supports what I saw about Stoops being a better regular season coach.
2. Mack won plenty without Vince... hell he beat a better Bob Stoops led OU team with only Case McCoy!
3. What does character have to do with bowl records? Who are you talking to?
Again, I was not even arguing about the beter coach. I was just chiming in to say that comparing bowl records is apples to apples and Mack was a better bowl coach. It is also clear based on head to head and conference titles that Stoops was a better regular season coach.
Stoops won conference titles. Mack Brown won bowl games. Each was only able to win one national title. Pick your poison on what you like better for all the non national title years.
OU's offense scored enough points to win. Their defense could not stop Georgia in the 2nd half, that was the problem.
The douchebag just led them to 3 straight Big 12 titles. This board complains about all the recruits we didn't get or go after. If Texas chooses not to go after the douchebag recruits, and then gets beaten by said douchebags, then Texas needs to beat the douchebags with their stellar student athletes (good kids), keep quiet, or start recruiting said douchebags. Everything else sounds like whining.
@zuckercanyon who are you arguing with? What are you arguing?
Bob Stoops sucked in bowl games. Darryl Royal also was not a great bowl coach. Why does this have you in a tizzy?
Both Bob Stoops and Mack Brown are all time great coaches. Neither sucks or is a bad coach. What are you trying to prove? Both were successful. Overall Stoops was more successful. Mack was more successful as bowls. Stoops was more successful at the regular season and the rivalry. Both were equally successful at winning national titles.
Also, OU is a cheater school with low program character but I have no idea what relevance that has to anything.
Comparing BCS top tier bowls to Holiday/Cotton/Alamo is like comparing Texas and Baylor's programs.
You're correct, H, I'm basically on a rant. I was at the 65-13 game in 2003. Stayed the whole game, wore my burnt, saw a young Aaron Harris intentionally level an OU player in the end zone, saw that intensity, and knew that's what was necessary at Texas to get to the next level. Was interviewed by the Daily Oklahoman that day, told the reporter that if you brought the OU coaching staff to out sideline, that game would've looked differently. Then Vince put Texas on his shoulders for two years and the rest is history. I was using real numbers (w's n l's) to show what Stoops accomplished. There's a lot of fun had at his expense (Big Game Bob), but I find it maddening that the guy "we" make fun of made us look bad regularly (and won many conference titles). I get it, this board (and any other board) has differing opinions, and I apologize for my rant, but I sometimes feel it necessary to remind people that Texas had a lot of talent under Mack and that talent many times wasn't used to its full potential. I think Stoops did more with the talent he was able to get than Mack, so it's not genuine to imply that somehow Mack was better in any way.
You know, Stoops hates puppies....
I love Mack. I'd be proud to have either of them as my coach. I'd take Stoops first if I were picking a coach. I'd take Mack if I were picking out a Diplomat.
Mack went 3-1 in BCS bowls and Stoops went 5-6. That was literally my first post. Yes, Mack was a better bowl coach and BCS bowl coach. In general, if you gave Mack time to prepare, he won. He has a ridiculous record in bowls, opening games and coming off of bye weeks. Stoops was not as good with extra time to prepare. Brown and Stoops had different strengths and weaknesses, just like almost all coaches.
Mack was a better bowl coach. Bret Bielama is a worse coach than Mack Brown or Bob Stoops but probably is better than both at coaching linemen. Why do you hate the second winningest coach in UT history so much? UT and OU both had elite coaches at the same time, and Stoops generally got the upperhand. If you want to be mad at someone, be mad at a rubbish coach like charlie strong who lost 0-24 to iowa state and lost to kansas. That is a REAL example of squandering talent.
Hell, Mack Brown was a better bowl coach than Darryl Royal. Was Darryl Royal a better coach? Absolutely. He was better than Brown or Stoops. However, Brown was a better bowl coach than Darryl Royal. As for those non bcs bowls, Mack Brown had some impressive wins including beating Nick Saban and LSU in the Cotton Bowl without Vince Young.
Texas was 2-2 against Baker Snowflake.
2013 8-5 Texas 41 8-5 Texas Tech 16
2015 5-7 Texas 24 11-2 OU 17
2016 5-7 Texas 40 11-2 OU 45
2017 7-6 Texas 24 12-2 OU 29
He got his butt kicked by the only good Texas team he played. He beat one mediocre Texas team and went 1-1 against two terrible Texas teams.
He had 6 touchdowns and 4 interceptions in 4 starts against UT.
Mayfield QB ratings against UT:
He never once kicked UT’s butt. Mayfield was only as good as OU’s linemen, running backs and wide open WRs. If he had gone to UT he would not have accomplished anything.
Have to agree 100% with zukercanyon. Over the years I've found most longhorn fans to be far less than objective when it comes to OU.
Can someone explain me to Texas fans who want to complain about one of the best coaches and eras in Texas history after the past 4 year stretch we had and the following coach being the only coach in Texas football history to never have a winning season?
“Mack Brown elevated our program and won our only national title in the past 48 years. He was the worst! The 2000s were rough times to be a Texas fan with all that terrible coaching! The Akers, McWilliams, Mackovic and Strong eras were so much better!”
^ there is my unrelated rant of the day.
+1 [that's how that works here, right?]
So what you're saying, HTown, is that, although Bob Stoops went to 11 BCS games and Mack 4 BCS games, the important part is that Stoops went 5-6 and Mack went 3-1 (two with Vince, let Vince be Vince, we figured it out), then I have to agree to disagree. Stoops got in more big games by beating Texas or winning so many games that Texas lost out by losing to someone like Tech. I don't hate Mack so much as the notion that somehow, because he was a good guy and had good kids (and liked to say good kid, a lot), that made his fewer victories better than Stoops' (more) victories because of a winning percentage in lesser bowl games plus some BCS games, half of which were quarterbacked by possibly the greatest college football player of all time (to date). I apologize for the "venom" I may be spewing out today, but not for the basic facts of my case.
The pain and embarrassment that has occurred since Colt was hurt in the Alabama game is what most people remember.
And yet, other than 2010, it was better than the past 4 years... though beating Nebraska in 2010 was nice. I went and had a great time.
Stat, I believe, debunked this once. When did Bob Stoops ever upset a higher ranked Texas team? In fact, I think 2013 was the only time Brown or Stoops ever won with the lesser team. The better team won every year except 2013.
I am saying Mack Brown was a better bowl game coach. Mack Brown did better in bowl games. Stoops did better overall and in the regular season. DKR did better than Stoops or Brown overall. Brown was better at bowl games than Stoops or DKR.
Yes, Stoops was better at the regular season and overall.
1. What do good kids have to do with anything?
2. Vince Young is not the greatest player of all time. He may not even be the best QB in Texas history. That entire team was great. Guess who recruited Vince Young and that entire team? Mack Brown. You act like he had nothing to do with it and somehow deserves no credit. That’s like saying Saban is bad, he just recruits better players than everyone else.
3. Mack was better at bowl games and did better than Big Game Bob with a month to prepare. Mack Brown’s lesser bowl wins were pretty good. Not every Bob Stoops BCS win was all that great. Stoops has a Fiesta Bowl win over 8-4 Uconn and a Sugar Bowl win over 8-4 Auburn. Mack Brown’s 2012 Alamo Bowl win over 9-3 Oregon State was a win over better and higher ranked opponent than either of those. Stoops blew it against West Virginia and Boise State. In short, the facts do not support him being a better bowl game coach. If I had to choose a head coach among DKR, Brown and Stoops, I would take DKR. If I had to choose a head coach only for a bowl game among those 3, I would take Mack Brown.
Their offense only put up 7 points in the 2nd half, that didn't help either (although overall, yes, their offense did pretty well and 38 total from the O should have still been enough to win). But OU was generally a first-half team all year, especially on offense.
Vince was the straw that stirs the drink (Reggie Jackson). The 2005 team was loaded. If not for Vince, they don't smell that game. On a great team, Vince Young stood out for his herculean efforts in those two Rose Bowls. Hats off to all qbs for Texas who led Texas to titles, but Vince has no equal. I get it, you like Mack Brown, he had the 'Horns rolling for a little over a decade. Then he checked out. If he was that wounded by Colt's last game, he should've retired right then. I'll always remember those years he had his finger on the pulse, and they were great, but he single-handedly tore down all he had built by his actions from that game until he was forced out. HTown, you make some good points for Mack Brown, but not enough to outdo or equal what Stoops accomplished. I guess where they are equal, they each have one national title, and I'll leave it at that....
I hear VY discussed as one of the top college football players EVER. Not here but nationally. Not the greatest QB, but player. He was a multiple position player that was unequaled.
Also, many games OU didn't try to keep their foot on the pedal after half. Both TCU games saw them killing clock with long, ground control based drives. When they needed to score in the second half they usually did - tOSU, KSU, etc. The difference was that UGA was a jump up in class - as the national semifinal should be.
I like VY and am not interested in badmouthing him. I will he was not great in 03, still great but shaky at times in 04 up until the second quarter of the Michigan rose bowl and was fantastic in 05.
That said, 05 had one of the best offensive lines ever assembled. VY’s last run was a combination of his speed and his oline taking out quite a few USC players. 05 had also had great running backs. If you check out the 05 UT and USC teams, they were loaded and possibly the best teams ever assembled. Great player + great team = legendary. 05 still wins every game except tOSU and USC without Vince Young. VY did not single handily win inspite of his coaches or teammates.
That said, Mack Brown assembled that team. He recruited Vince Young over Reggie McNeal. He started VY over Mock even though it cost us and nearly cost us games in 03. Mack changed his offense for VY. Mack put VY in as the QB to take his team from 11-1 to 13-0.
Mack then recruited Colt McCoy who came pretty damn close to winning a natty too. People want to give Mack blame for missing Andrew Luck and Manziel, but act like he had nothing to do with vince young. Also, Mack beat OU 6 of his 7 wins without VY, finished in the top 5 three times without Vince Young, beat Jim Tressel and tOSU in a BCS game without VY, etc, etc.
Not really. Texas won 8-9 games a year his last three years and his last year played for a big 12 title once Diaz was removed despite losing his starting QB. Charlie Strong’s best team was the 2014 one full of Mack Brown players. Charlie tore everything down and now we are hoping Herman can pick up the pieces.
I never said Mack Brown was more accomplished. Stoops was overall more accomplished. I never argued this. I just said Mack Brown was a better bowl game coach, which has not been refuted. I have not been arguing who the more successful coach was at any point.
I guess the powers that be and boosters weren't convinced that Mack's 8-9 win years would morph into 10-win seasons again. Guess we'll never know what might have been....
Wow, lots of really well thought out posts... that's usually my cue to leave.
@Htown77, we've gone back and forth on Mack Brown before and I think it's an area where we can agree to disagree. My UGA friends fully understand the frustrations I had with Mack Brown. I was in Atlanta as the Mack regime was circling the drain and I saw a lot of parallels between Mark Richt's Georgia program and ours. A lot of my views were reinforced by so many of their fans I talked to.
I guess rankings really are one of the few things to determine which team is 'better' but I believe we lost to OU with some better teams. I feel like between Mack Brown being scared shitless of the OU game and Greg Davis calling the offense, we left a few W's on the field during those years. Idk maybe I'm wrong.
Regardless, what I can say is that I love the thought and civility everyone (on both sides) has put into this thread. No, really... I am often reminded how lucky I am to have access to such an awesome place to talk Longhorn (and sometimes OU) football.
The main thing about Vince is that he was a leader on and off the field. Teammates followed him because they believed in him.
The only team that I think may have been better was 2002. 2001 and 07 are debatable. Otherwise, I do not think any of the years OU won are really debatable. OU did have a better team in 04, Bob Stoops just was not the best in bowls. Also, Mack Brown winning in 08 was an upset according to everyone else and the BCS, but most Texas fans agree we had a better team.
2004 USC 55 OU 19
2005 Texas 41 USC 38
^ is a classic example of Mack Brown being a better bowl coach. Before someone says “Vince Young”, let me just state that Vince Young did not play defense and maybe Bob Stoops should have considered recruiting Vince Young if he wanted to beat USC.
Also, Mark Richt never won a national title and did not have Bob Stoops in his division. He did have Urban Meyer, but that was only for a 5 year span. Overall, the SEC East was easier than the Big 12 South in the 2000s. Brown won a national title in a harder division.