Illegals at it again

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by CedarParkFan, Feb 23, 2013.

  1. CedarParkFan

    CedarParkFan 1,000+ Posts

    Illegals make demands

    I know it's an old topic, but still relevant. Anyone else find it kind of ridiculous that those here ILLEGALLY feel they have the right to make DEMANDS on our society? The media legitimize them by referring to this as "immigration reform" rather than "illegal Immigration reform." Likewise they refer to the illegal immigrants as either "immigrants" or "undocumented immigrants." They whine and bedwet about a situation that they put themselves in. We have a third world ******** to our south that some refer to as Mexico. It's a country that is overrun by drug cartels and corrupt politicians. I can't blame someone for fleeing. Just do it the right way. You don't reward those that break the law and you damn sure don't have to give in to their "demands."

    I'd love to see the U.S. military pulled out of Afghanistan and placed along the border. Hell, I wouldn't mind an all-out war against the drug cartels. Shoot to kill. But, that's another topic.
     
  2. Monahorns

    Monahorns 5,000+ Posts

    I saw that too. My initial reaction was, are they really wanting reform? I don't think so. I think what they want is amnesty. That's not reform that's a wink and a nod which changes nothing. It's just a promise that we won't deport them.
     
  3. Clean

    Clean 5,000+ Posts

    The 1986 Amnesty by Ronald Reagan was a huge failure. This one will be a bigger failure, but the libs will then feel all good about themselves.




     
  4. Musburger

    Musburger 500+ Posts

    Most of the time, I'm too disillusioned and cynical to even care anymore.
     
  5. dillohorn

    dillohorn Guest

    Our nation will not survive the hoardes of illegals that have flooded in. They have brought nothing but destruction upon our nations culture, economy, and society.
     
  6. Bevo Incognito

    Bevo Incognito 5,000+ Posts


     
  7. dillohorn

    dillohorn Guest

    Not a good trade off when comparing grocery costs with the costs of crime, welfare, education, medical, and so on that they are costing U.S. citizens and legal residents.
     
  8. Roger35

    Roger35 2,500+ Posts


     
  9. pasotex

    pasotex 2,500+ Posts

    I love this issue. Keep digging that demographic hole.
     
  10. texas_ex2000

    texas_ex2000 2,500+ Posts


     
  11. pasotex

    pasotex 2,500+ Posts

    The future is so bright I gotta wear shades.

    There is no way to play this for the Republicans. You lose either way. The Republicans have already alienated generations of legal Asian and Latino citizens. You can keep doing it or you can let millions become citizens most of whom are likely to vote Democrat. I love this issue because my side cannot lose.

    And quit pretending that there is any moral high ground on whether these people get citizenship. This is a policy decision no different than what we did with Germans, Irish, and Italians. The same No Nothings oppose it.

    Same as it ever was. Demographics rock.
     
  12. biganakhanhda

    biganakhanhda 500+ Posts

    Hooray for diversity!!!!! [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  13. Clean

    Clean 5,000+ Posts


     
  14. pasotex

    pasotex 2,500+ Posts

    "Give me your tired, your poor,
    Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
    Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

    My family immigrated here in 1638. It is all in the timing.
     
  15. HornCyclist

    HornCyclist 500+ Posts

    There's a lot more going on here than "illegal" and "broke the law." Regardless of the immigration status of these individuals the fact that they are human is not in dispute. Whatever rights we have as Americans are derived from and ultimately secondary to our rights as human beings. In our own history, Fugitive Slaves were illegal, was Frederick Douglass wrong to make demands while not being a citizen? I think almost everyone here would say "no." There would not have been such unanimity a century and a half ago. Why is that?

    You might argue that the distinction between slave and free, between the races was an unjust one of a completely different nature than the designation of nationality. It's certainly different, but both are just lines drawn by people. I do not advocate for open borders, because that could create a greater humanitarian crisis and instability, but I believe our immigration policy for the last two decades has been completely out of touch with reality. Because it has not adequately recognized the massive inequality across our Southern border, strong push pulls mechanisms have been at play. The result has been courageous individuals choosing to break a law or perhaps not choosing because they do not conceive it. They have come here like many immigrants have come throughout our history and become a part of the fabric of our society. I cannot not say that, with my family at stake, and so much more opportunity just a few 100 miles north, I would not have made the same choice. By the grace of god, I was not placed in that situation and did not have to make that choice. For that reason, I do not feel it is my place to judge the moral wrong of breaking an arbitrary border out of touch with reality.

    It is certainly easier to dismiss immigrant people as "illegals" but it was probably easier and more convenient to dismiss African Americans as "slaves." Both labels were inappropriate.
     
  16. CedarParkFan

    CedarParkFan 1,000+ Posts


     
  17. Vol Horn 4 Life

    Vol Horn 4 Life 5,000+ Posts


     
  18. CedarParkFan

    CedarParkFan 1,000+ Posts


     
  19. CedarParkFan

    CedarParkFan 1,000+ Posts


     
  20. CedarParkFan

    CedarParkFan 1,000+ Posts


     
  21. CedarParkFan

    CedarParkFan 1,000+ Posts


     
  22. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    ?
    This doesn't make sense to me but perhaps there wereimmigration laws back then that made these people iillegally here?

    "This is a policy decision no different than what we did with Germans, Irish, and Italians. "

    Did the Germans Irish and italians etc break our law by getting off the boats and coming through Ellis Island?
    Which law exactly?

    Edit to add vis a vis the field labor commment.
    There is a UNLIMITED number of visas available for " field labor"
     
  23. Roger35

    Roger35 2,500+ Posts


     
  24. biganakhanhda

    biganakhanhda 500+ Posts


     
  25. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    I always wondered:
    Where did these indigenous people come from?
    Did they grow naturally from the dirt?
     
  26. biganakhanhda

    biganakhanhda 500+ Posts


     
  27. biganakhanhda

    biganakhanhda 500+ Posts

  28. biganakhanhda

    biganakhanhda 500+ Posts


     
  29. Roger35

    Roger35 2,500+ Posts


     
  30. HornCyclist

    HornCyclist 500+ Posts

    I think his point is that we all came from somewhere, so there's no point in bringing up indigenous populations to argue that "we were here first" is still a valid argument. "We were here first, as Americans in this society we built, and therefore have a right to control further immigration" is it. The real issue is, law asides, to what extent is limiting the right to exclude people from immigrating here is moral, and how to deal with those who violated the laws, regardless of the morality of such laws, by coming here "illegally." I think the two issues are separate though closely related, because if the laws were unreasonable, then it makes the people who came here illegally less justified in arguing for rights...or making "demands." But even if it was fundamentally wrong -- and I disagree with this -- I think they could still be justified in demanding rights. There remains just a practical issue...what else are we to do with millions of people? Deportation is certainly not an option...either from a humanitarian or practical viewpoint. Random deportation of those who have attention drawn to them by attempting to work or pay taxes is certainly unfair and has terrible effects on people's right to live and families. They came here, have worked, have participated in society, and arguably, for most, have given more than they took. I just do not see a justification for the terrible effects deportation would have.

    So I am of the mind that some sort of amnesty program with an eventual pathway to citizenship, paired with increased border security and an increase in the amount of unskilled labor immigration allowed set to fluctuate based on economic conditions is the only reasonable way to go. Mexico is a mess, but it has the potential to take off and become a modern economy. Once the wage gap begins to close, there will be less labor market demands on immigration, and it immigration will slow. Immigrants coming here now, will speed that process as most send money back to their families in Mexico.

    And to CedarPark and others outraged at the illegal immigrants "demands." What would you do in their situation? What would you have done in their situation in their home country?
     

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