Impeachment

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by mchammer, Sep 24, 2019.

  1. I35

    I35 5,000+ Posts

    Trump has every right to speak to other world leaders. He also has the right to ask another country to look into corruption if there is strong evidence that there is (which it’s very strong).

    So what if Biden is a political foe. If Joe didn’t do anything wrong (when he did because he even admitted it in video with his own words) then he’d have nothing to worry about.

    There’s a difference in letting someone that has done something wrong and brings a situation to the front that now needs to be investigated vs a group pointing the finger at someone and while pointing looking for anything they can for validity, even if it’s made up.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
  2. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    The thing that is frustrating is how Biden/the Left hide behind the cloak of "a political opponent." Why does this matter? If there is corruption then it should be fair game regardless of their status. It becomes some sort of immunity that would shield family corruption.

    What am I missing here?

    I would argue that it is vital that we flush out corruption involving our elected officials and their families and that what Trump did could in fact be seen as necessary.

    "Hey, you guys want us to send you money and look the other way on these sweetheart deals. Well that ends today. Either you flush this stuff out or our relationship changes."

    How do you get another government to do that?
     
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  3. I35

    I35 5,000+ Posts

    Exactly! What they are accusing Trump of doing is exactly what Hillary did. It was Hillary campaign that funded Fusion GPS to get dirt on Russian Collusion. They hired an ex-British spy named Christopher Steele, who reached out to Russia operatives that got the FBI involved with their buddy Comey, who then gave Fake evidence for a fake dossier using Carter Page and also Comey leaking classified info to a friend in the media that got a named special counsel Robert Mueller appointed. You just can’t make this stuff up. Everything about the Dems has Fake ALL OVER IT.
     
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  4. Horn6721

    Horn6721 Half of seeming clever is keeping your mouth shut.

    Anyone who thinks Trump wanting an investigation into corruption by Biden against Ukraine is afraid of Biden as a perhaps maybe 1 of 20 candidates has drunk too much conspiracy kool aid.
    Trump would love Bide to be the nominee.
     
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  5. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

     
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  6. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Word is that Schiff has broken off talks with "whistleblower"'s legal team regarding his testimony

    It looks like Schiff wants to completely block him out of the picture now

    Weird

    Here was Schiff way back in Sept
     
  7. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    There is, of course, more to this story.

    One thing the tranche of FOIAd emails recently released by the State Dept make abundantly clear is that there was an actual "quid pro quo" in the exchange of money between the Biden Family and Ukraine, and subsequent actions of the Obama Admin. Thankfully these emails have stopped the media from referring to the Biden-Burisma story as "unsubstantiated" or "a conspiracy theory" with "no evidence."

    And now for the most amazing part -- Of the various Obama State Department and Obama White House officials who are now implicated in this scheme, some of them are now testifying in the "impeachment inquiry" in Schiff's SCIF in the basement.

    At a minimum, these witnesses have a pretty serious CONFLICT of INTEREST
     
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  8. Garmel

    Garmel 2,500+ Posts

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  9. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    And check this out -- Team Hillary knew of all of this^. The Clinton Machine had the dirt on Biden & Son, and their illicit Ukrainian influence-peddling scheme in 2015. They were threatening to leak it to the media. And this was the real reason Biden did not run in 2016.

    Not many people have survived targeting by the Clinton Machine. They play hard and rough. If you dont believe me, ask Epstein. I'll wait.

    Joe Biden announces he will not run for president in 2016
     
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  10. OUBubba

    OUBubba 1,000+ Posts

    He cares nothing about corruption. You surely don't believe that. If he did he'd be looking into Saudi Arabia or Rudy's buddy with the company named "Fraud Guarantee". All he wanted was a public announcement on CNN from the President about them looking into Burisma. I agree that Quid Pro Quo in foreign policy is fine as long as your benefit is a benefit of US interests, not personal interests.
     
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  11. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    I guess we have to believe the standard is that you attack corruption everywhere you see it or it means you don't care about it. I'm not going to say he's a shining light of virtue driven to illuminate the darkness no matter it's source. But in an academic discussion are we to impugn motives or are we to isolate what APPEARED to be cronyism or currying favor with the VP of the United States in a hotbed of geo-political importance?
     
  12. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    One thing that never made any sense is why Trump would put so much effort into pressuring the Ukrainian government for these investigations? If there was an "Appear(ance)" of cronyism and curring favor with the VP why wouldn't then Justice Dept. be that appropriate investigation mechanism?

    My guess is that the DOJ would say that Hunter Biden getting his lucrative board seat is not illegal. Joe Biden pressuring Ukraine to battle generic corruption (what Trump supporters are erroneously claiming Trump was doing) was part of his job. In other words, the DOJ wanted no part of tracking down Trump's pet conspiracy theory thus Guiliani was put to work.
     
  13. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    Well that could all be very true. Did Trump cut out the middle man? Hey, I'm under no illusions that he didn't target Biden. Biden was very sloppy as far as appearances go at a minimum. In this day and age where an accusation is guilt then the Biden's are guilty. But if we're going to all agree to wait until it's over before we comment then all we can do is just that; shut down West Mall and bash Tom Herman! Ha...

    Imagine being attacked mercilessly by Joe Biden and not reacting in this manner. It would take an enormous amount of self-control. Whatever is happening behind the scenes is the real story and there is no honor amongst thieves. Then we go ah ha because we are playing with the rules of honor and I give you credit for that.

    But Biden is no choir boy. Neither is his son. And they took full advantage of their power.

    It's like the entire Russian hack mess. It occurred on Obama's watch. Arguably he failed MISERABLY in his role as protecting our interests against foreign and domestic threats. Yet he is still deified by the Left and Trump was to be impeached. The standards are ridiculous.
     
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  14. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    The other day I was having a conversation with my 15 year old daughter about speeding tickets. I said the fact that everyone speeds is no defense. Getting caught is your violation. It's that simple. The cops probably overlook lot's of transgressions (just ask BLM when it comes to justice for whites).

    Biden was on Trump's radar.
     
  15. I35

    I35 5,000+ Posts

    This is Big. If the fake news had any integrity they would be reporting on this every hour on the hour.
     
  16. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    People forgive and forget lot's of things. Obama savaged Hillary in the 2008 primary over her Iraq War Resolution Vote (Bernie voted against it, delivering a very eloquent defense of his vote. He didn't hide behind the idea that the "moron in chief" fooled everyone). Eight years later it didn't seem to matter; only the Republicans (Bush) were to be blamed but but but... there's this:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
  17. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    Yeah. That's because they all have the same political views as you. You trust your sources. Garmel trusts his.

    Tribal is as tribal does.
     
  18. OUBubba

    OUBubba 1,000+ Posts

    That's like saying, I trust hot weather girl over meteorologists. Given the nature of weather in Oklahoma we value experienced weather people. Not eye candy.
     
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  19. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    Imagine a partisan who hates Obama like Liberals hate Trump. What does this partisan have access to; the same propagandized media environment as everyone else. So they sit around and hear Obama mock Mitt Romney for identifying Russia as America's number one geopolitical threat. Then he hears Obama telling the Russian President he'd have more flexibility after the election. Then come to find out the Russians hacked us on Obama's watch. As an aside, a rabid Liberal (Hillary) called Gabbard the favorite of the Russians. What should the partisan Obama hater call Obama? A favorite of the Russians?
     
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  20. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    All your comment proves is that you, LH, and SH have huge blind spots.
     
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  21. LongestHorn

    LongestHorn 1,000+ Posts

  22. LongestHorn

    LongestHorn 1,000+ Posts

  23. Phil Elliott

    Phil Elliott 2,500+ Posts

    Trump is the political opponent of Schiff, Pelosi, et al. Why are their allegations against him not given the same poo-poo that the Biden accusations are? The unfairness continues to run only one way.
     
  24. mchammer

    mchammer 5,000+ Posts

     
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  25. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Based on his initial witness list, it looks like Schiff might abandon the entire quid pro quo argument. It was never supported by the facts. Plus the names of the first witnesses released so far likewise do not support this contention. In addition to that, the rumor is that Schiff had the "whistleblower" in for a formal interview, and even Schiff thought he sounded over-the-top partisan. Can you imagine how bad that guy must be in person for Schiff to schiff-can him?

    Trump: No quid pro quo.
    Pence: No quid pro quo.
    Pompeo: No quid pro quo.
    Zelenky: No quid pro quo.
    Volker: No quid pro quo.
    Yanovitch: No quid pro quo.

    If this turns out to be the case, then they will go for the more general abuse of power/obstruction of justice. If you go with the theory that he will put his strongest witnesses on first, then he thinks career diplomats will be able to sell their case that Trump should be impeached because they dont like his "America First" which they have spent decades fighting.

    We will see how that goes.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
  26. mchammer

    mchammer 5,000+ Posts

    This guy is joke. I told you.

    “And this isn’t firsthand. It’s not secondhand. It’s not thirdhand,” Rep. Lee Zeldin, R-N.Y., said to Taylor. “But if I understand this correctly, you’re telling us that Tim Morrison told you that Ambassador Sondland told him that the president told Ambassador Sondland that Zelensky would have to open an investigation into Biden?

    “That’s correct,” Taylor admitted.

    “So do you have any other source that the president’s goal in making this request was anything other than The New York Times?” Zeldin asked.

    “I have not talked to the president,” Taylor said. “I have no other information from what the president was thinking.”

    Democrats' 'Star Witness' Admits He Wasn't On Trump-Ukraine Call, Sole Source Was NY Times
     
  27. Garmel

    Garmel 2,500+ Posts

    You've got to be kidding me.
     
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  28. mchammer

    mchammer 5,000+ Posts

    Well the TDS folks have a valid though inexcusable excuse: they trusted what Schiff said.
     
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  29. Garmel

    Garmel 2,500+ Posts

    I'm hoping Husker will now understand what i was telling him yesterday.
     
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  30. mchammer

    mchammer 5,000+ Posts

    Twitter rumor is now saying the Dems are dropping quid pro quo. If so, likely timed with these transcript releases.
     

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