Is China about to bring the hammer down in Hong Kong?

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by Joe Fan, Aug 5, 2019.

  1. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Is a massacre possible? Seems so.
    If so, what should be done about it? Either to prevent it, or afterwards.
    Our current policy seems to be "HK is part of China." So, hands off.
    But what if they start killing people again?
    I studied the UN Charter in law school and, for what's its worth, it would not allow for third party intervention in this circumstance, if it were to occur. The primary exception is to prevent genocide, which this would not be. And not that anyone really cares about the UN Charter anyway.

    Here you can see China staging Military Police and motorbikes rather than tanks and APCs. Which is all about the optics or 'control of the narrative." China may learn slowly but they learn. They want this to look like a police action, rather than a military crackdown
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2019
  2. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    I would allow the whole city of Hong Kong to immigrate to the US. Hong Kong is one of the most free market places in the world. It would help the US economy.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  3. mchammer

    mchammer 5,000+ Posts

    The British should have never given it up
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  4. Horn6721

    Horn6721 Half of seeming clever is keeping your mouth shut.

    Did the Brits have a realistic choice? I know there was lease that was up But the Birts did not have to give up Hong Kong.
     
  5. mchammer

    mchammer 5,000+ Posts

    Lease on new land was to expire, but not HK island. They could have played hard ball
     
  6. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    I hate to see it. HK was one of the more unique human-made places on earth.

    The NYT (Friedman at least) has long argued we need to be more like the mainland Chinese. I just dont see it.
     
  7. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. VYFan

    VYFan 2,500+ Posts

    I got to go to Hong Kong once. It may turn out to be a rare memory.
     
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    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    A PRC official issued their strongest denunciation claiming the HK protests “exceeded the scope of free assembly.”

    This is a cautionary tale for us. This is where liberals here will take the US Govt if their ever gain full, unfettered control. Dont let it happen. They must be opposed at every level. It's up to you.

    China Warns Hong Kong Protesters Not to ‘Take Restraint for Weakness’

    [​IMG]
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    The Brits were in a mindset of decline. They had already given up all of their major overseas possessions and were reasonably comfortable with accepting that the British Empire would become a thing of the past. They sure as hell weren't willing to go to war with a significant power (though far weaker than they are today) to keep a possession. Strangely, they did to war to keep the Falklands which had very little value by comparison.

    China knew this, so they weren't going to let the Brits keep Hong Kong. However, they did make some concessions - even some meaningful ones.

    What we're seen now is the normal stomping out of freedom and dissent that normally happens when the far Left takes total power - like at tiannamen square and in cities like Berlin, Prague, Budapest, Bucharest, and many more.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
  11. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    I rank Jimmy Carter giving up the Panama Canal for no good reason as worse. But if I were Brit, HK would probably seem worse.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    I wouldn't have given up the Panama Canal. However, I think it was less consequential - not because the Canal wasn't important but because the loss of control was far less substantial. We may not directly control the Canal anymore, but if Panama ever screwed with us, we could very easily kick them in the nuts. The treaty guarantees the right of the US to defend the neutral operation of the canal against anyone, including Panama itself. Furthermore, our military is strong enough to do it easily. If some Panamanian hack dictator took control of the canal and caused trouble, he'd be gone in about 20 minutes. Fortunately, we've generally had good relations with Panama since (except with Manuel Noriega, obviously).

    None of this is true about the UK-China deal. It maintains a degree of freedom in HK for awhile, but the UK has neither the ability nor the will to enforce it or even exert much influence. China is in the driver's seat.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    I remember a book by Bill Gertz (longtime DC reporter) who alleged China had developed tactical nuclear weapons that could fit inside shipping containers (and could then be moved by rail or even truck). All of this in anticipation of them taking a new management position in Canal operations (a contract they schemed in advance to underbid anyone else in the world). Their goal was to be able to freely store these weapons in Canal warehouses, in our hemisphere, at our doorstep. While the Chinese are going to do whatever they can, it would have been better if Carter could have foreseen this (like, for example, as Reagan did). But they kept telling us how smart Carter was, with the higher education in nuclear technology.
     
  14. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Thread here about that what the people are doing

     
  15. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Response has begun

     
  16. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    I am not a fan of this
     
  17. Vol Horn 4 Life

    Vol Horn 4 Life 5,000+ Posts

    Eh, cell phones are already too expensive so I'm a fan of not being taxed more.
     
  18. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    To keep it topical, it's a green light for China to roll through HK
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  19. Vol Horn 4 Life

    Vol Horn 4 Life 5,000+ Posts

    I'm not connecting the dots. How is not imposing tariffs a green light for China to roll thru HK?
     
  20. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    Sounds like leverage to me. It gives China not to roll through Hong Kong and it delays an additional tax on the American people.
     
  21. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Let's see how that works out
     
  22. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Cheaper chinese fone parts for a 100k dead or 1M sent to camps is not my kind of trade off.

    Trump has them by the ying-yangs. Yet he just let up on certain tariffs on specific items. He is loosening pressure on them at the exact moment he should be squeezing them harder. The potential for a bloodbath is descending on HK as we chat. Or, at a minimum, some massive Mao-style camp treatment (if you think the Chinese are past doing that, look up "the Uygurs in China"). No one ever knows fully what the future will bring but if something like this does happen to Hong Kong, will this green light have been the moment?
     
  23. LongestHorn

    LongestHorn 1,000+ Posts

  24. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

  25. Vol Horn 4 Life

    Vol Horn 4 Life 5,000+ Posts

    That didnt answer the question. Seems to me economic sanctions (or tariffs) would have zero implications on whether they roll through HK unless they agreed not to do it as long as he doesn't impose the taxes. This would then become a humanitarian threat as opposed to a US economy threat which is weird to me. "If you tax us we'll kill a bunch of innocent people here" but we're talking China so I guess nothing is off the table. I still dont see how any taxing on our part would keep them from massacring a bunch of people.
     
  26. horninchicago

    horninchicago 5,000+ Posts

    You sure that's not San Fransisco?
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  27. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    If they were doing that, while pooping out heroin needles, then maybe
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  28. horninchicago

    horninchicago 5,000+ Posts

    And being attacked by antifa.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  29. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    If this was Russian T-14s rolling through Chechnya, not many people would have much to say. Same for, as mentioned above, the Chinese putting all their Uighurs in camps. As we've already seen, the rest of the world doesn't seem to care much. Or, maybe they are just afraid to speak up? In any event, I would argue Hong Kong is different. It is special. It's a sliding scale to be sure. But it ranks high on mine. Clearly the British should be squawking. But they are both unorganized and cowardly. More pragmatically, there is only one non-Chinese person in the entire world who can make a difference on this and he just made concessions to them. It's the wrong message and the wrong time. It pisses me off that this unelected, control-freak, quasi-Marxist, totalitarian behemoth is going to be allowed to destroy such a neat spot and no one is even objecting. I hate it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
  30. mchammer

    mchammer 5,000+ Posts

    You should have seen what they did to Shanghai.
     

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