Is the Chevy Volt a Fraud?

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by MojoMan, Oct 20, 2010.

  1. MojoMan

    MojoMan 1,000+ Posts

    Yet again, President Obama and our rapidly expanding federal government have demonstrated their absolute inability to formulate a centralized industrial policy that makes any economic sense. Every time they do this, they fail. Sooner or later, you would think we would learn. But the temptation to mettle and micromanage is just too great for some of our so-called leaders.
    We do not need these people to do more. We need for them to stop spending and wasting taxpayer dollars on initiatives that do not work. Seriously. Enough already.

    From Investors Business Daily:

  2. mcbrett

    mcbrett 2,500+ Posts

    This is a dumb hack.

    1) It attacks a politician as if he is the Automotive Engineer responsible for designing the battery, electric drive, and charging system. Obama visited the plant and drove the car 10 feet. All Presidents do this. It's a photo-op, and shows support American firms.

    2) It mocks a technology widely haled as a "bridge" technology- as if this is supposed to be the 10th generation of a mature brand, and then compares it to a product that has been around for over 100 years. Think for a moment what a bridge technology is, and what purpose it serves in the long run.

    Early adapters pay a premium for a product with lesser capabilities. Over time, as the products and technology mature, the product becomes both better and cheaper. The Volt, with all certainty, will become better and cheaper, much like Michael Douglas' cell phone in the movie "Wall Street."

    3) You don't like the Volt. Some people on the board don't like the Volt. But, many people DO like the Volt. In fact, there is a waiting list of names of people who want the Volt, many of which are willing to pay a deposit. The Volt will sell out in its first year- without question. One unofficial website shows the wait list at 50,000 members. 50,000 on the Wait List

    In summary, this article confuses its politics with its engineering with its basic principles of developing products.

    The Volt, as a range extended vehicle, is actually a technological breakthrough and gets 5 times the mileage that your F150 does outside. That is an impressive accomplishment. You don't have to like it, but you don't need to confuse your political leanings with it either.
  3. Ag with kids

    Ag with kids 2,500+ Posts

  4. mcbrett

    mcbrett 2,500+ Posts

  5. THEU

    THEU 2,500+ Posts

    1) Obama has NOTHING to do with the design and/or production of the Volt & to 'blame' him for it is absurd.

    2) The Volt is a bad idea poorly executed.

    3) People buy crappy cars that are a bad idea all the time. For an example see the Prius with it's larger carbon footprint than gas engined cars of similar size. Eviro douches nearly worship them & they drive like a 1960's tractor to boot.
  6. trueut2003

    trueut2003 250+ Posts

    I agree. I am NO fan of Obama, but that article is ridiculous.
  7. Ag with kids

    Ag with kids 2,500+ Posts

  8. mcbrett

    mcbrett 2,500+ Posts

    I subscribe to PM- I read that article as well. Here's the message you're missing.

  9. THEU

    THEU 2,500+ Posts

    In 20 years electric cars will be the stuff of gas lights... Totally & completely obsolete & found out for the fraud they are.
  10. MaduroUTMB

    MaduroUTMB 2,500+ Posts

    If the problems with fuel cells in cars are addressed, this discussion becomes laughable. Put another way, the only reason that electrics can hold a candle to normal gasoline driven vehicles is the miserable efficiency of ICEs. I would look into Ceres Power and possibly also Direct Carbon.
  11. Musburger

    Musburger 500+ Posts

    Whether or not the Volt turns out to be a good product, the government's involvement is a poor idea.

    The $7,500 subsidy invites fraud. This will be no different than the first few months the first-time home buyer credit went into effect. Months after the fact, everyone read how the credit was fraudulently claimed on tax returns resulting in refunds that will never be paid back. This was the fault of the IRS since safeguards (requiring the taxpayer to prove purchase) were not implemented initially.

    The $7,500 credit for purchasing the Volt will be a much easier scam. Deadbeats will actually buy the car on credit, file a tax return, and keep the refund. Most anyone will be able to buy the car for little or no money down. Thousands of "consumers" will buy this car and never make a single payment. GM will show nice revenue from sales initially, only to repo many vehicles after a few months. The taxpayer will lose $7,500 x tens of thousands on this one. I guarantee it. But in the early going, Volt sales will be proclaimed as a great success.
  12. AustinBat

    AustinBat 2,500+ Posts

  13. texascoder

    texascoder 1,000+ Posts

    It sounds more like a $41k golf cart. But somehow I doubt the trunk is big enough to hold a set of golf clubs.
    Also, I'm really glad that my tax money can help pay for subsidies for people to buy a car from Government Motors. What next? Will the government choose a most-favored electronics company near bankruptcy to "invest" in, and then offer tax credits for folks to buy plasma TVs from that company? Where does it stop? If the car is worthy on its own merits and can make GM money, then no tax credits should be required, right?
  14. mcbrett

    mcbrett 2,500+ Posts

    Nice to see the parade of skeptics light on links or facts.

    Remember the golf cart comments when you see me pass you in a Model S in 2011. [​IMG]

    Google Model S if you feel like looking something up for once..
  15. texascoder

    texascoder 1,000+ Posts

  16. texascoder

    texascoder 1,000+ Posts

    BTW... I got my google working finally (thank you so much for trying to point out my internet shortcomings)...

    So I was talking about the Chevy Volt which is nothing more than a glorified $41k golf cart at this point, and you decided to bait and switch to the Tesla Model S. The Model S actually seems like a more attractive car at least according to the website. Only problem is, you'll have to wait until 2012 to blow by me in my Mustang [​IMG]
  17. EuroHorn

    EuroHorn 2,500+ Posts

    Given that this car will sell like hot cakes and with the huge waiting list of early adapters, we should take away the $7,500 subsidy. I wouldn't mind getting a tax rebate. Funny that Apple didn't need the government to provide a tax rebate when the first Ipad came out.
  18. Bevo Incognito

    Bevo Incognito 5,000+ Posts

  19. Musburger

    Musburger 500+ Posts

    [​IMG]Model S base price is listed at $49,000 (Also qualifies for the $7,500 tax credit). It's probably a much better vehicle than the Volt, but both cars are more than I'd be willing to pay.
  20. EuroHorn

    EuroHorn 2,500+ Posts

  21. Alpine

    Alpine 100+ Posts

    When the battery ih my volt runs down, I will just hitch up my team of unicorns to pull it.
  22. texascoder

    texascoder 1,000+ Posts

  23. MojoMan

    MojoMan 1,000+ Posts

  24. hornpharmd

    hornpharmd 5,000+ Posts

    Yeh, and why are us drivers being forced to pay a gas tax for roads that these bicyclists get to use for FREE!!!
  25. Gasman

    Gasman 25+ Posts

    Hornpharmd -
    You actually bring up another interesting point. As cars get more efficient either through electric batteries or the increasing CAFE standards, the gasoline taxes collected are going to have to increase substantially to maintain roads/highways. Theoretically, a pure EV car would contribute to wear and tear on the roads but never to their repair via gasoline taxes.
  26. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada Winebibber

  27. RoughedUpSuspect

    RoughedUpSuspect 100+ Posts

    How does Obama have anything to do with this at all? US Energy Policy act of 2005 estalished credits for hybrids. And you think GM just created this thing from scratch in a year and a half? The concept vehicle was in the NA Intl auto show in January 2007. How much development occured to that point?

    Was Bush or clinton responsible for the Pontiac Aztek?

    Partisans live in such a binary world. Must be nice to avoid nuance.
  28. pasotex

    pasotex 2,500+ Posts

    The Aztek killed the entire brand. It was one of the top ten ugliest cars ever.
  29. texascoder

    texascoder 1,000+ Posts

  30. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada Winebibber


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