Israel fights the good fight

?? Mona
Hamas with no warning rapes tortures and kills innocent Israeli citizens and takes hostages it has raped and tortured
IF that wasn't a declaration of war from Hamas What exactly would you see as an act of war?

Pretty one sided war then and Israel won it before 2023 was over.

Good to see that you ignored everything before 10/7/2023 though. It allows one to be confident in an opinion while at the same time being completely inaccurate.
 
He views the land as belonging to the Palestinians, as he says in the final paragraph. If you start with that assumption, basically anything the Palestinians do can be justified or explained away. And sure enough, he does that.

My gosh. This is almost comical. I don't know if the inaccuracy in the statement is purposeful or due to a more sympathetic factor. But it simplifies everything to a by-line. Sounds like what a Fox News-MSNBC type talking head would say.

I don't view "the land" as one thing. I view ownership down to individual plots of land. The fact is that Israel kicked Palestinians off land they had owned and worked for hundreds if not thousands of years in 1948. The fact is that Israel is still kicking Palestinians off of land that they legally or morally hold claim to today. These are the simple facts, 1948-2024 at least.

That doesn't mean that all the land owned by Israel today was taken by force. Some of it was purchased and acquired by other legitimate means during that same timeframe and before. Any Israeli who truly purchased or homesteaded land is the true owner of the land, and their ownership should be protected. I even think the Israeli families living on land taken 50 or so years ago should be considered the legitimate owners because there is no way to document who the previous owner was and it would be way too difficult and complicated to repatriate land in an ethical way.

If there are cases where you can prove legal ownership of land through documentation and it is clear enough for a court to rule, I would support repatriation of Palestinians to land they lived on. Not many of these kinds of cases exist.

Even with that, I don't justify terroristic acts against Israel by Hamas, both on a moral and a utilitarian basis. I don't think Palestinians should support Hamas either. They are leading them down a primrose path to destruction. However, I do recognize that the people in Gaza and the West Bank are being oppressed and that one very human response to that is violence. That doesn't "justify" it. But it does mean I understand human nature.
 
My gosh. This is almost comical. I don't know if the inaccuracy in the statement is purposeful or due to a more sympathetic factor. But it simplifies everything to a by-line. Sounds like what a Fox News-MSNBC type talking head would say.

I don't view "the land" as one thing. I view ownership down to individual plots of land. The fact is that Israel kicked Palestinians off land they had owned and worked for hundreds if not thousands of years in 1948. The fact is that Israel is still kicking Palestinians off of land that they legally or morally hold claim to today. These are the simple facts, 1948-2024 at least.

That doesn't mean that all the land owned by Israel today was taken by force. Some of it was purchased and acquired by other legitimate means during that same timeframe and before. Any Israeli who truly purchased or homesteaded land is the true owner of the land, and their ownership should be protected. I even think the Israeli families living on land taken 50 or so years ago should be considered the legitimate owners because there is no way to document who the previous owner was and it would be way too difficult and complicated to repatriate land in an ethical way.

If there are cases where you can prove legal ownership of land through documentation and it is clear enough for a court to rule, I would support repatriation of Palestinians to land they lived on. Not many of these kinds of cases exist.

Even with that, I don't justify terroristic acts against Israel by Hamas, both on a moral and a utilitarian basis. I don't think Palestinians should support Hamas either. They are leading them down a primrose path to destruction. However, I do recognize that the people in Gaza and the West Bank are being oppressed and that one very human response to that is violence. That doesn't "justify" it. But it does mean I understand human nature.

All I did was read your comment. But of course, you're also an extreme backpedaller.
 
All I did was read your comment. But of course, you're also an extreme backpedaller.

That is a lie. I never said any action is justified. It also doesn't represent accurately what I was talking about.

First, I wasn't talking in absolute terms. In 1948, before and after, there were Jews who legitimately owned land. That doesn't mean the events of 1948 didn't happen and Jews didn't violate the rights of many Palestinians at that time.

I said this...
The Gaza strip itself exists the way it does because Israel pushed at least 750,000 people off their land in 1948 and holds them in a walled stretch of land 5 miles X 25 miles. There has been an ongoing 76 year old attack on Palestinians by Israelis.

...as a response to this comment by BrntOrngStmpeDe, which implied that the conflict started last year. It at least ignores the ongoing nature of the conflict.
You attack me, I'm taking ground in my counter attack.

Notice in my last paragraph I don't say no Jews owned land legitimately. IOW, I didn't say the land belongs to the Palestinians in some absolute, binary way. That is taking what I said out of context and twisting it to frame it in a certain way. I'm not back pedaling from anything I actually said. I am explaining myself for the others on this board, so that they know I didn't say what you insinuated.
 
That is a lie. I never said any action is justified. It also doesn't represent accurately what I was talking about.

First, I wasn't talking in absolute terms. In 1948, before and after, there were Jews who legitimately owned land. That doesn't mean the events of 1948 didn't happen and Jews didn't violate the rights of many Palestinians at that time.

I said this...

Actually you did speak in absolute terms, but again, you're a huge backpedaller.
 
Actually you did speak in absolute terms, but again, you're a huge backpedaller.

Excuse Me Wow GIF by Mashable
 
Mona If you read the article it is full of "May Might Could Potentially"
Plenty of conjecture . Not a good try.

Yes. The author is very careful in his language, but it isn't conjecture. The quotes from the IDF on 10/7 paints a clear picture and are very direct.

The order went out to not let any cars re-enter Gaza, and the military carried it out. It's clear what happened, but it isn't clear how much people were actually killed.

He also mentions examples of the IDF firing on their own bases and civilian houses. They know specifically that 13 Israelis were killed by the IDF firing on just one house.
 

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