It's Amazing to me that.....

Any one of Tom Penders' first 5 teams could beat our current basketball team like a drum. Even his teams made up of Bob Weltlich's players! I don't want to hear about injuries, "one-and-done", etc. Is it coaching? Bad players? Do shooters/scorers exist outside of Norman, OK? Very Depressing.

 

You mean BMW, Blanks, Mays, Wright. Those were the best Penders teams.

 

89-90 BMW was his best squad talent and success wise with their Elite 8 run. 94-95 was his best overall record with Terrence Rencher and Rod Anderson averaging 20 PPG a piece. Reggie Freeman was a super soph too. They went 23-7 but got bounced in the 2nd round. 96-97, Reggie’s Senior year, was a pretty uninspiring team that went 17-10 but Tom got them to the Sweet 16. I loved watching those teams. Tom had a great basketball mind and was a decent recruiter...wasn’t good at the politics.

 

My question is why do they keep going away from the hot shooter? Happened against Baylor and now against OSU. No excuse not to keep Davis engaged in the second half.

 

students leaving where they were watching to take to the streets, hanging on street lights at 24th and the drag... :sigh:

 

...people still use clickbait titles.

 

Being beaten by one of Penders 1st 5 teams is nothing to be ashamed of. BMW was my favorite team of all time. Those guys got rolling, got cocky and had me believing that they had a chance to win the National championship. It is the only time in my life that I really felt Texas had a chance in men's basketball. After Penders, I lost almost all interest in the team as I never believed a team in Texas would ever win a National Championship by playing the same type of game as North Carolina, Duke, Kansas, etc.... Smart revived my interest because I believed the team would play a fast paced entertaining style of basketball. Unfortunately, I was wrong! I am completely ignorant about college basketball now (as it is a horrible product): why doesn't any team try to consistently score 100 points a game anymore?

 

I think Coach Smarts prime objective of “building the culture” is a bit of a crutch. You want to do that with youth national teams that are essentially all-star squads who already outclass their league, go ahead, you have that luxury. But The University of Texas is a large corporation and athletics is arguably its most lucrative unit: football its most profitable product. Our culture overall really is already what it is. The football culture has room to improve and we realize that when we start winning championships again. Notice I said “again”; because we’ve been there and done that and I know what it takes to get back there. Whoever the coach is that gets us back to national prominence remains to be seen; maybe it’s TH. But it will happen again because we have the template.

Basketball is just a different story. I don’t think any basketball coach (that would ever actually come to coach here) would ever be big enough to alter the identity of the school so much that basketball becomes #1. Or so much that even at #2 in the pecking order it’s potential as a perennial NC contender is a given. It’s just never going to happen. Might as well just focus on recruiting the best talent we can, (and then actually developing them), and then winning games we should win with that talent so that future recruits know coming here won’t be a mistake. Then, focus on doing whatever it takes to keep wining basketball games and getting squads tournament ready. Everything else will fall into place. Some magical upstart coach or proven commodity may end up here with a magical combination of players and we’ll make another great run or two. But we’ll never be Duke, Kentucky, or Kansas.

Rick Barnes failed to get beyond where I think our basketball culture would allow him to be. He peaked at a Final Four with one of the best teams ever assembled at the school. I think Ricks ability to develop one-and-done players and get them NBA ready was his hallmark and put us on the map for national recruiting. That was a “culture change” that happened organically. It was a byproduct of his coaching ability. Shaka is not going to “change the culture” by winning 11 games, or losing round 1 of every tournament. I know it’s only been 2.5 years but really, I don’t see anything different coming out of the end of this season.

All that said, I have a great deal of respect for Shaka Smart as a man and a coach. I don’t know him personally but he appears to be an incredible person and relationship builder, is really good at winning hearts and minds and commands a great deal of loyalty and commitment from his players and staff. But I don’t think he was the right hire for us. I said that when they announced he was on the short list. I said the same thing about Charlie Strong. They just weren’t big enough names with good enough proven track records to make the kind of impact this University needed at those very crucial pivotal points in time for the program. They were affordable gets with perceived upside based loosely on some success that wasn’t ever really fully and critically evaluated, in my opinion. The bet on the upside didn’t pay out for Charlie and I don’t think it will for Shaka.

 

Rick should have had at least two more final four teams. The LSU loss and the Arizona loss were probably two of the most disheartening losses of the Rick Barnes era.

 

That LSU team had Tyrus Thomas and Glenn “Big Baby” Davis. They just outhustled us in 05-06 Elite 8.. We were the better team, just couldn’t finish in the end. Then it was the Calipari led Memphis team with Derrick Rose that got us in 07-08. Memphis was the better team. I think we lost by like 15 or more points and it was never really close.

 

At this point, having watched 2 1/2 years of Shaka's coaching I tend to agree.

 

I was referring that Penders got nothing from Weltlich, as the original post implied. Penders was his own undoing. He bullied Like Axtell and released info that he should not have. Axrtell stood up to the bulley and got stoned by the Texas fans, in my opinion, very unfairly. Smart runs a very disciplined, well oil offensive machine as compared to Penders' teams. Penders' offense was the first one over half court gets to jack it up.

Barnes was a big step forward from Penders. I am still in doubt whether Smart is even a lateral move.

 

I have no idea as to what really happened between Axtell and Penders, but under Penders he was well on his way to being a first round draft pick. What did he do in Kansas? I watch sports to be entertained and Penders teams scored an A+ in my book. So boo hoo if some snowflake (even before snowflakes) got butt hurt by Penders.

 

I can tell you have no idea what happened. Penders release academic information about Axtell, a clear violation of NCAA and University rules. Penders was fired. The basketball fans blamed Axtell for getting Penders fired when Penders got Penders fired. Notice all the success Penders had at the coaching jobs he had after leaving Texas. I have no idea about how you think Axtell was well on his way to a 1st round pick. Was it the success Penders had in developing NBA draft picks? I cannot think of many. Yes, Kansas is where many future NBA picks go to die.

Barnes came in, installed some discipline in the offense and taught how to play defense and developed many NBA draft picks.

Penders was a good hire at the time and helped right the progam after Kaiser Bob was fired. What I don't know is why Abe Lemons was fired. He was a very good coach and had good teams that had the misfortune of competing at the same time of the UofH glory days and Sutton's teams at Arkansas.

 

One thing we can all agree on... Luke Axtell has tried to make a positive impact since leaving basketball behind: www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article148730899.html

 

The program would still be in an abyss if not for Tom Penders. As someone who sat through terrible football from 86-90, I remember sitting in the Drum in floor seats because nobody attended basketball. Travis Mays and Penders lit the place up. Was so much fun.

 

Pender's inherited Wet-licks's players and the "Runnin' Horns" were born. Attendance basically increased by about 1,500 from one game to the next. FEC was LOUD, man. I remember them hanging about 120 points on Miami, FL. and Pender's was asked if they maybe were gonna start some kind of home/home rivalry with the Canes. His response was essentially "I would think that is unlikely, we plan on upgrading our OOC schedule". And while he couldn't beat Arkansas, anywhere, he was virtually unbeatable at the drum.

 

I'm sorry, but that's just ridiculous.

How many players did Tom Penders even develop enough to get them drafted? Let alone become first-round picks?

 

I apologize if I missed the sarcasm... 1990 Draft Travis Mays was selected #14 and Lance Blanks was selected #26 Both 1st rounders who improved tremendously under Penders. Joey Wright, Albert Burdett, and Terrence Rencher were selected in 2nd round. BJ Tyler another 1st rounder. If you want to hate Penders.... go ahead, but I refuse to accept that he was a bad coach. I attended UT from 86-91 and as far as basketball at UT was concerned (at least for me) he was a gift from God.

 

How did you get to "hate"? You said Luke Axtell was on his way to being a first round draft choice and I said that was ridiculous. That's a long way from saying "I hate Tom Penders."

I was there the same years, as it happens. I covered the Horns for the Texan for some of that time. To say that Penders was a developer of NBA talent is a pretty big stretch - he had six players drafted, and he only produced one player who lasted longer than three years in the NBA, and that was (shockingly) Dexter Pittman. Blanks and Mays lasted three years, Tyler only one. Unless I miscounted, Penders players started a grand total of 64 games in the NBA - and Mays had all but 15 of them. So no, Penders was not a developer of NBA talent. He just wasn't.

 

Being on an NBA roster is a major indication of BB talent and skills. Starting is not the only indication of player development.

I'm not weighing in on what Penders did or didn't do coaching wise. I'm not upon Penders abilities in developing talent. I just know his teams were a big step up from Weltich.

But to distinguish someone's talent--yes v. no--whether he starts in the NBA or on the roster but not starting is not supportable. Guys on the bench, suiting up, are physical freaks. In a good way.

 

Kaiser Bob -- the natural warmth and empathy of Bobby Knight combined with an abysmal won-loss record. Penders made basketball fun again at UT. Maybe Barnes was a better developer of NBA talent, but it was a lot more fun to watch the Running Horns.

 

I'd agree with that for a guy like Royal Ivey who was in the league for a pretty good stretch (although he did start some of that time, I think he was mostly a sub.) But we're talking about for the most part guys who were drafted because they performed in college, went to the league, made minimal to no impact and were gone inside two or three years.

Ultimately Penders made his reputation in a bad basketball league filled with Iba disciples who thought sound basketball meant not running while dribbling. He had good years and played some entertaining basketball, and I think he deserves absolute credit for getting Texas basketball into a more credible place. The BMW run was definitely special. But at the end of the day, Penders was good for a tournament bid and a win or two in the tournament (Sweet 16 if he drew opponents that weren't good at controlling tempo.) But he was never going to move Texas to the next level.

He was 10-48 against top 25 teams. He never finished in the top 20 nationally. He was good for an occasional upset but more often than not, when we played a top 10 team, it was a beat-down. I just think people have this romanticized version of the Penders years, and yeah, it's probably because after the Weltlich years, just getting to the tournament was the impossible dream. He was here for 10 years and the program plateaued where he left it, and there's no indication he would have ever moved it past that.

 

Abe got fired because he and DeLoss absolutely could not stand each other, and Abe made it very well known.
http://newsok.com/article/1976594

http://articles.latimes.com/2002/sep/03/local/me-lemons3

https://onceuponatimeinthevest.blogspot.com/2013/11/more-quotes-from-abe-lemons.html

 

For me your description of the Penders years (100% accurate) are a description of what a good basketball coach can do at UT. His teams were fun to watch and I enjoyed his teams while he was at UT. I do not think UT has ever had a great basketball coach and I doubt UT ever will. Lets face it, it is almost impossible (sure Duke is an exception to my knowledge) to win a championship at basketball and still keep any sense of dignity. Even Wooden has his "dark" side.

 

I know recruiting services are much more advanced now, but, in modern terms, it seems like development of a 5* recruit into a 4-year NBA player isn't as good as developing a 3* recruit into a 3-year NBA player. Bball roster sizes are so small relative to football that counting "NBA players playing more than 3 years" seems arbitrary if you rarely get the 5*s.

 

Question to anyone on this general topic
Qualifier -- you must be old enough to have been around for the Tom Penders Experience

I had more fun as a Texas fan under Penders than I did with our two subsequent coaches. Caveat - I will always give Barnes a hearty nod for giving us some top shelf NBA talent to follow (having Aldridge or Durant flash the Horns is always great). But the Penders' teams, for me, were a blast. They were exciting. Our games were legitimate events. This was true even though we rarely advanced. I remember a couple of the Penders tourney losses better than I do most of the Barnes wins.

In fact, I will go so far as saying that the closest second is actually the early Abe Lemons teams. Those teams were also a blast (up until the loss of Mike Wacker at least)

Am I alone on this? (it happens. no worries)

 

No. On this we agree.

 

Honestly, I'm not sure why, but I agree with you except for the final four run we had....that was pretty special and exciting.

I think it was because we were always climbing the hill to greatness with many players other top teams didn't want.....made us the under dogs I guess. Plus Penders wasn't afraid to talk some sh$t in the process.

Let's face it, Barnes was a boring coach and starting just a few years after he was hired we started getting these super stars and expectations (understandingly so) went through the roof that we would become an elite program. Every year ended up being a disappointment after being bounced in the first or second round even though Penders did the same thing.

Now we are paying top money for a top coach. We have top 10-15 recruiting classes regularly and I personally expect to win and when that doesn't happen its a huge disappointment. I mean look right now we are losing by 29 points to West Virginny! This beating completely dismisses the win against Tech for me when just losing the game would have been ok.

 

Personally, I think all a college coach can do is show case a talent and teach him so he gets drafted into the NBA. After that, it is all on the player.

You said what I was trying to say (but I cannot write) perfectly!