Kill Conference Title Games; 8 Team Playoff

Discussion in 'On The Field' started by Htown77, Dec 13, 2018.

  1. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    College Football Playoff doesn't need expansion – it needs reform

    2003 OU: lost to Kansas State 7-35 in Big 12 title game. Still played in BCS National Championship Game

    2011 Alabama: Did not play in SEC Title Game. Won National Championship.

    2012 Notre Dame: Did not even join a conference, much less play in a conference title game. Played for national title.

    2016 Ohio State: Did not play in Big Ten title game. Made playoff.

    2017 Alabama: Did not play in SEC Title Game. Won national title.

    2018 Notre Dame: still no conference, still in the playoffs.

    The conference championship games do not matter. Neither the BCS nor the playoff committee ever cared if a team won its conference or even played in its conference title game when selecting a national champion.

    Have 4 meaningful playoff games with the top 8 teams instead of conference championships during the last week. After the first round, select the bowls keeping the rest of the system in place with the four winners going to the two new year’s six semifinal bowl games. This is not hard. Make it happen college football.

    If the SEC is opposed, that is dumb on their part and the rest of college football needs to tell them to take a hike.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
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  2. Clean

    Clean 5,000+ Posts

    Sounds good to me. An 8 team playoff would be good. A 16 team playoff would be better.

    I hated having to play blowu again this year. Our loss took the edge off our win over them in the regular season.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
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  3. Dionysus

    Dionysus Idoit Admin

    Conference title rematches are just stupid. Nobody should have to beat a conference team twice in a season.

    Maybe there is an exception to be made in a natty game, if the two best teams in the country turn out to be ones that have already played in the regular season.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
  4. X Misn Tx

    X Misn Tx 2,500+ Posts

    If that's what it takes to expand to 8 teams, i'm cool.

    The notion of playing a team twice in a "rematch" doesn't bother me at all though. All major pro sports have that potential in their playoffs. I don't see the heartburn around that point.
     
  5. PecosBill

    PecosBill 1,000+ Posts

    Conf Championship games by definition are two members of the Conf regardless of the number of teams, divisions, etc that a Conf has in members.
    The CCG money goes to the Conf members and not the individual teams.

    Top 4 means selecting the best 4 and excluding 5 and higher.
    Top 8 means selecting the best 8 and excluding 9 and higher.
    There will always be an argument over who gets excluded regardless if 5th or 9th.

    Ask tOSU and OU if it matters.
    Ask GA if losing matters, Ask TCU/BU is being tied matters, ask all Conf members if the CCG money matters to their budgets.
    Ask UCF to play ND schedule every year.

    The CFP does the job of selecting 4 teams. If a Conf is left out play better FB in the regular season and dont lose to Purdue.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. n64ra

    n64ra 1,000+ Posts

    At some point the arguing stops. The lowest seeded CFP team has won the NC - in the first year of the CFP. So maybe a 5 seed could win it.
    No 16 seed has ever won the NCAA basketball tournament. The team 'ranked' 69th (ie first one out) may complain that they should be in the tourney, but nobody is taking them seriously as a NC contender.
     
  7. PecosBill

    PecosBill 1,000+ Posts

    The NCAA controls Basketball post season Championships while Conferences control Football post season Championship.
    Presidents vs Conf Heads to make a funding decision.
     
  8. Walking Boss

    Walking Boss 2,500+ Posts

    Go back to an 11 game regular season (no scheduling fcs teams allowed), have a conference championship game if you want (Big 12 should not with everyone playing each other in the regular season) and then have a 16 team playoff. which start the week after conference championship week or two weeks after. The higher seeded team has a home game in the first two rounds and then neutral sites for the final four and championship. Two teams will play 16 games at most to win it all. Teams that don't make the playoffs can play in the same nondescript bowl games that they are going to play in now. The major bowls will be the ones hurt and so it won't happen. Using the current seeding the first round would look like:

    WVU @ Bama
    Texas @ Clemson
    Kentucky @ ND
    The Pirate @ blowu
    PSU @ Georgia
    LSU @ tosu
    Florida @ Meatchicken
    Washington @ UCF

    That is a pretty good set of games.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2018
  9. 2003TexasGrad

    2003TexasGrad Son of a Motherless Goat

    The issue is ultimately that you have 5 power 5 conferences and one of them is guaranteed to be left out every single year. And when you factor in the stupid SEC bias you can get 2 SEC teams in and have 2 power 5 champions left out in a year. That is what is dumb about a 4 team playoff. Oh by the way throw in Notre Dame who doesn't even have a conference and has its own special rules.

    As long as a committee is selecting the 4 teams then there's a problem.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2018
  10. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    “Ask tOSU and OU if it matters.”

    Okay, I will.

    In 2003, #1 OU lost to Kansas State 7 to 35 in the Big 12 Championship game. They stilled finished #1 in the BCS and played in the national title game. Did it matter?

    In 2016, Ohio State did not play in the Big Ten Championship Game due to losing to Penn State. Ohio State finished #2 in the playoff committee poll and made a semi final. Did it matter?

    Guess what happens if Baylor and TCU rematch? They still do not get in over tOSU.

    Guess what happens if OU does not rematch Texas? Their 3 point loss to a top 15 rival is still better than Georgia and Ohio State’s blow out losses and OU still gets in!

    No, it does not matter.

    We do not need to see 2005 11-0 Texas beat 2005 7-4 Colorado 70-3. We do not need to see 2018 12-0 Clemson beat 2018 7-5 Pittsburgh 42-10. These games are a wasted opportunity where we could be seeing the top 8 teams in the country (regardless of conference) battle it out in four exciting games the last week of the season to determine the top tier bowl games and the semi finals. If watching 2018 9-3 Washington beat 2018 9-3 Utah for the second time this year in a 10-3 “classic” that has no playoff implications whatsoever sounds better to you... suit yourself, I suppose.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2018
  11. Austin_Bill

    Austin_Bill 2,500+ Posts

    Something to figure is that Beginning of December is finals for most students. This is a problem for Student Athletes.

    The key is that a 16 team playoff means that it's 4 weeks to decide a champion Even if you go into New Years and a week further. you still need to compensate for Finals and Christmas.

    About the only way it would work is if the playoffs started on Thanksgiving day weekend. That would negate the last game of the year and the conference championships.

    I don't see anything more than 8 teams and even then you still have to have the conference champs to think about.

    To expand the playoffs, Time and politics are working against you.
     
  12. PecosBill

    PecosBill 1,000+ Posts

    The creation of the B12 CCG to play #1 vs #2 mattered enough to the B12 to get it approved and set the stage for a repeat of TXOU as the 13th game and avoid the TCU/BU issue.



    OU got revenge for their one loss of the season and ended the regular season with a better record and ranking over 1 loss tOSU and 2 loss GA. (Ohio State’s blow out losses = 12 -1 season)

    It mattered.
     
  13. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    TCU/BU would have still been left out. Ohio State in 2016, Bama in 2017 and Notre Dame in 2018 getting in without winning or even playing in a conference title game proved the BU/TCU claim was BOGUS.

    tOSU got in because they equaled more eyes and $s than BU/TCU. OU = eyes and dollars so they never needed a championship game.

    The title game rematch is idiotic and was ONLY created for money and the fact the Big 12 is run by idiots.

    No, it did not. OU was #5 and ahead of tOSU without the rematch. Georgia lost and dropped to two losses. OU also was NOT a co-champ this year, unlike BU/TCU. They were sole Big 12 champs without the frivolous title game.

    OU still would have gotten in without the championship game and BU/TCU would have still been left out with it.

    Your silence on 2003 OU, 2011 Alabama, 2016 Ohio State and 2017 Ohio State is defeaning.

    Also, if we have no conference championship game and an 8 team playoff in 2014, BAYLOR AND TCU BOTH GET IN!!! The 8 team playoff with no championship game is still better in that scenario. In 2016, OU makes an 8 team playoff instead of the Big 12 being left out.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2018
  14. Bill in Sinton

    Bill in Sinton 5,000+ Posts

    This is such an obvious logical solution that it probably will be ignored.
     
  15. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 10,000+ Posts

    While I agree with your overall post, I have to take exception to this particular example. I for one, enjoyed the hell out of seeing that game.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  16. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    Anything short of a 16-team playoff is a travesty. I'm fully on board with getting rid of CCG's to shorten the schedule if it means 16 teams.

    16 teams fully allows for the "cinderella" teams and the teams that may played a difficult schedule or had a key injury that resulted in a few losses but now is an equal to anyone because they are peaking at the right time.
     
  17. X Misn Tx

    X Misn Tx 2,500+ Posts

    of a mockery of a sham of a mockery of a travesty of two mockeries of a sham
     
  18. n64ra

    n64ra 1,000+ Posts

    Unless they play basketball, then it's just fine to have games around finals?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. Statalyzer

    Statalyzer 10,000+ Posts

    Or unless they play football at any level except FBS.

    I don't like that for two reasons. One is less scheduling variety. 9 of our 11 games would be the same every year. The other is some FCS schools really want those games for the payday, or to help prepare their team to move up to FBS in a few years. I don't see a big difference between scheduling a FCS team and scheduling Liberty, UTEP, or Kent State.

    2014: Big 12 team with 1 close loss to a good team vs Ohio State with a double-digit loss to a mediocre team.

    2018: Big 12 team with 1 close loss to a good team vs Ohio State with a double-digit loss to a mediocre team.

    What mattered was the name on the front of the jerseys and the historical prestige that it represents. What mattered was the preseason rankings (which are also influenced by historical prestige): Ohio State was #5 both times, 2018 Oklahoma was #7, 2014 Baylor was #10, 2014 TCU was unranked.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  20. ViperHorn

    ViperHorn 10,000+ Posts

    part of the TV money paid to the NCAA should go to the FCS division for distribution to those schools. No FBS scholl should play a FCS school unless that school is transitioning to FBS and is playing only FBS schools.
     
  21. X Misn Tx

    X Misn Tx 2,500+ Posts

    Reading an article where he says geography (conferences hence conference Champions) should have no bearing on the playoffs. Like that's stupid.

    This such an oversimplification fallacy. Divisions matter. Conferences matter. Geography matters. It's what creates rivalries. It's what creates common threads in team history.

    Underdogs winning conferences are fun. Exciting. It's story.

    5 power conference Champions and 3 at - large would be perfect. Say 1 or 2 underdogs win a conference, they can still add the best remaining teams.

    I'm a Mavs fan. And if you are a Texas NBA fan, you love or hate these teams... Mavs, Spurs, Rockets. We play each other more, and we affect each other's record more. I don't want people screwing with my rivalries, neutering them, making every game count equally, reseeding the top 16 teams across both conferences regardless of division. "Coming out of the West" matters. When divisions are harder or hurts your records and your seeding, the fun for rivalries.

    I'm fine on not including conference champions, but not because geography/conferences should have no bearing. Geography creates more drama and rivalries. It creates underdogs.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2018
  22. n64ra

    n64ra 1,000+ Posts

    Exactly. No little school is getting in on a eye ball test vs a "peer".
     
  23. ViperHorn

    ViperHorn 10,000+ Posts

    From the TCU AD in today's FWST:

    On Big 12 contraction/ expansion talk: “Every conference would be interested in Texas and Oklahoma. I can’t speak for Texas, but I think they’re really happy in the Big 12. We have an amazing setup where everybody plays each other, you have a conference championship and I think our path to the College Football Playoff is as strong as anyone. I think Oklahoma has proven that.

    “The conference is as strong as it’s been in 10 years. Conference realignment and television contracts go hand-in-hand, and a stronger conference results in a better TV deal. But I know there’s a sense of calm now across the college landscape, the last moves were in 2013. Nothing is permanent or final, but I don’t expect to see any movement for a while now. Maybe we’ve got it right.”

    On CFP expansion: “I think the system is working. We probably need a few more years under our belt. The issue that people don’t realize if you expand the College Football Playoff, it’d completely blow up the bowl system.

    “Year in and year out, the four best teams are in it, irrespective of what happened in 2014 [when TCU was left out]. The Big 12 has added a championship game since then. Had we played in the championship game and beat Baylor, we wouldn’t have dropped out of the top four. It’s a little difficult to compare 2014 and now because it’s not apples to apples.”


    Read more here: TCU AD Jeremiah Donati dishes on Turpin scandal, Big 12 expansion, Jordan brand and more
     
  24. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    The TCU AD is an idiot. Also, if you play the first round of an 8 team playoff during conference championship week, it absolutely in no way disrupts the bowl system. Plus, an 8 team playoff that could have featured both TCU and Baylor is better than the idiotic rematch that could have eliminated OU and led to no Big 12 team in the playoff had UT won. Do the ADs not get an 8 team playoff is better for the Big 12 than a rematch that can potentially eliminate any teams from qualifying?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  25. PecosBill

    PecosBill 1,000+ Posts

    Htown how does the P5 conferences make up for the loss of the CCG money by giving up the CCG money for 10 teams and 5 conferences?
     
  26. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    I bet you an 8 team playoff gets higher ratings and more sponsors than this year’s Pac12 Championship Game.

    Read the article in the OP:
    “Instead, we get this bastardized version of the sport because the commissioners created it to make money. OK, fine. Conference title games, like basketball conference tournaments, make some money. No one is against making money.

    You know what would make even more money? That first round of an eight-team playoff, which would generate massive (and far greater) television contracts, not to mention more ticket sales (bigger stadiums) at higher prices (more demand). And a lot of that money would stay in the places that care about college football – not far-off NFL towns.

    For two seats on the aisle for an Ohio State at Notre Dame playoff game, ticket brokers could demand a kidney and a half and then watch a bidding war drive up the price.

    The atmosphere for on-campus playoff games would be unreal. No one has ever attended an NFL playoff game in Lambeau or Heinz Field or Mile High or anywhere in America, surveyed the pre-kick frenzy, and thought, “Boy, I wish we got to spend $1,500 on travel so this could take place at some far-away dome or whatever-they-are-calling-that-place-now in Miami.”

    Clemson playing 7-5 Pitt is not going to generate as much money as Clemson playing a top 8 team in a playoff. Sorry, but there is no way in hell 7-5 Pitt generated much money. I have a wide variety of diehard college football friends from around the country. No one watched the ACC Championship Game. Every one of them would watch every playoff game.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2018
  27. PecosBill

    PecosBill 1,000+ Posts

    I have no idea how much those 4 games would yield but the question that the ADs and Presidents will be asking when they vote for or against cancelling CCG is how much does my school and my conference get?

    Each CCG money is divided within the members of that conference how would your proposal split the 4 games between the participants?

    5 CCG games would probably include all the top 6-7 ranked teams plus 3-4 others plus ND and maybe G5 team looking in.

    How would the conferences with 2 or more in the top 8 split money with the 5 Conferences no longer having a CCG game worth $24-30M?
     
  28. PecosBill

    PecosBill 1,000+ Posts

    my point is the CCG money goes to the conference and the ADs and Presidents who vote on such changes will say how does this benefit my school and my conference?

    If the Top 10-12 teams year in and year out - Bama, Clemson, OU, ND, tOSU, LSU, FL, WA, etc are just playing each other then the rich are getting richer at the expense of the members.

    How the money is split matters.
     
  29. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    Apparently the Big Ten thinks there is more money to be made in an 8 team playoff. They would not pursue it otherwise.



    I doubt he would pursue if the the numbers did not add up. 4 playoff games have to equal more revenue than some of the bad conference title games we have. The revenue could certainly be divided up in a fair way.

    The other stupid thing about the current Big 12 model is we make it harder on ourselves than other conferences to make the playoff. Playing a 9 game schedule and having to beat the #2 twice is going to result in a lot more 1998 Kansas State’s and 2001 Texas’s down the line where we miss the playoff altogether because of this dumb title game. OU was in the playoff without this title game. If Texas wins, OU misses it completely.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2018
  30. PecosBill

    PecosBill 1,000+ Posts

    Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany joins chorus of leaders ready to explore College Football Playoff expansion

    Very wise of Jim Delany to join the discussion of expansion while his B1G Conference sits out this years CFP along with P16 and G5 Conferences.
     

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