Last 3 Texas offensive coordinators....

Discussion in 'On The Field' started by gahornphan, Nov 3, 2015.

  1. gahornphan

    gahornphan 500+ Posts

    ...before the current regime
    Let's see....
    Major Applewhite, OC and qb coach at Houston...undefeated, ranked #18, 537 yds/gm, 45 pts/gm
    Bryan Harsin, Head Coach Boise State...7-2 record, first in Division.. 483 yds/gm, 40 pts/gm
    Greg Davis, OC at Iowa....undefeated, ranked #10...405 yds/gm, 32.6 pts/gm

    just sayin'
     
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  2. Clean

    Clean 5,000+ Posts

    So you're saying it isn't the coaching it's the UT talent pool?

    I'd buy that. We haven't had a QB who could throw the ball downfield with a reasonable expectation of success since Colt graduated and that really chaps my a@@.

    If I blame Charlie Strong for anything, it's for not going out and getting a JUCO QB. Every year teams like Auburn and Ole Miss reload at QB from the juco ranks. Not us, we sign a long term project like Locksley, who should probably be a WR. He let aggy grab that Blinn QB, who wanted to come to Texas.
     
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  3. ViperHorn

    ViperHorn 10,000+ Posts

    Once again, once the kid showed up at Blinn he was going aggy - just the way that system works.
     
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  4. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    Greg Davis was never the best we could do. Harsin and Applewhite probably were not the best we could do either. None of them were the worst we could do. We've had the worst we could do (at least, I hope it cannot get worse) on our offensive staff this season and last.

    Our 2010 offense with Gilbert was never this bad, and at the time I thought "man, can our offense be any worse?"
     
  5. gahornphan

    gahornphan 500+ Posts

    Common thread: All three of those guys are/were good when they had good quarterbacks. Not projects....but GOOD quarterbacks.

    BTW last Friday night: Arlington Lamar QB Shane Buechele: 16-24, 346 yards, 2 TDs; 6 carries, 17 yards

    Just sayin'
     
  6. IvanDiabloHorn

    IvanDiabloHorn 1,000+ Posts

    OC Applewhite won 8 games with Case McCoy in 2013.

    All three are head and shoulders above what Strong hired and kept.
     
  7. Detective Shilala

    Detective Shilala 2,500+ Posts

    Wasn't Heard supposed to be a good QB? By most accounts he was going to be better than good. Compare his HS stats to Beuchele's.
    Also I know Cal's defense is bad, but I have a really hard time reconciling THAT Heard with the Heard we saw last weekend. ISU's defense is not good either.
    I honestly think it was poor game plan and poor preparation. Is Watson still acting as QB coach? Are he and Norvelle on the same page? I don't know but that mess was bigger then the QB.
     
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  8. Clean

    Clean 5,000+ Posts

    If you don't even try, you got no chance. Jake Hubenak was recruited by the likes of Florida, Georgia, LSU, and others. But, he wasn't recruited by Texas. Didn't Michael Bishop go to Kansas State out of Blinn? Hubenak originally signed with Okie Lite, so he wasn't joined at the hip to aggy.
     
  9. IvanDiabloHorn

    IvanDiabloHorn 1,000+ Posts

    Heard is very good, but has bad offensive coaches. Swoopes is not as bad as these offensive coaches are making him. Simply look at what Applewhite is doing with Heard's qb clone at UH with a bad/injured offensive line.
     
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  10. ViperHorn

    ViperHorn 10,000+ Posts

    Major had a winning record with a QB that was no better than most of us on this forum. No coaches make a difference - good and bad.
     
  11. gahornphan

    gahornphan 500+ Posts

    If we're now defining a "good" team as simply one with a winning record, I guess you're right.
     
  12. Brad Austin

    Brad Austin 2,500+ Posts

    Heard over his first 3 starts was 33-55 (60%), 603 yards, 2 TD's, 2 INT's.

    Sure those aren't world beater numbers, but they are quality for a guy starting his first 3 college games ever, with 2 of those opponents being ranked.

    And then all the sudden he's such a talent deprived passer that ISU's bottom tier Big 12 pass defense was too stiff for him to challenge? I'm not buying that line.

    Even if he played bad with quality pass plays being called, he should still complete half his passes against ISU's weak pass defense. Instead his coaches called a ****** game with pass routes overmanned and doomed to fail before they started.
     
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  13. easy

    easy 2,500+ Posts

    Michael bishop haven't heard that name in a while that kid had an arm
     
  14. ProdigalHorn

    ProdigalHorn 10,000+ Posts

    I think this is the $54,000 question. Right now the gameplan looks like a hodgepodge. Charlie talks one week about us having an identity as a tough running team, and one week later we abandon it less than a quarter into the game. It absolutely looks like we have two (or three???) offensive coordinators with different agendas.

    That's a little deceiving because it's almost exclusively driven by one game. A game, btw, where the opposition had zero film on him. The fact is that Heard and Case are similar in that they can beat you with things they do really well, but they're really easy to game-plan for, and neither has an answer once that first option is gone.

    Having said that, I don't think what we tried to do on offense put him in a position to succeed at all.
     
  15. gahornphan

    gahornphan 500+ Posts

    Heard is not a "good" quarterback. He had a good game, just like "Trill" Hill, but defenses figured him out. Fortunately for aggie, there was another 5 star quarterback on the bench last year, who was able to win a few games. Then, when he struggled this year, he was replaced by another 5 star quarterback. Not to mention they have an experienced JC transfer on the roster too. There is no such luxury at Texas.
    When I said the former OC's were "good" when they had good quarterbacks, I wasn't talking about Applewhite and Case McCoy who won 8 games. That's not "good." Eight wins got a coach fired. Applewhite was not considered a "good" OC while at Texas. Now he's at Houston and he has a good qb (Greg Ward, Jr., 11th in the nation in pass efficiency) and the numbers say Applewhite is good. Greg Davis' numbers said he was good too when he had VY and Colt. Not so much with Garrett Gilbert. Now Davis has another decent, experienced qb at Iowa. So was Davis a GREAT OC with VY and Colt then forgot how to coach and became a lousy OC, only to find his way back at Iowa? Was Major a lousy OC at UT and now learned how to coach all of a sudden? I say no. They inherited good talent at the quarterback position. Just like Strong and Watson did at Louisville. At this point, we simply don't have a good quarterback on the roster. Maybe we have some POTENTIALLY good quarterbacks. I was very surprised when the coaches went so hard after Kyler Murray, but now I see they obviously didn't believe in the "talent" we had at quarterback either. If Heard struggles, as he is, we have no choice but to go with Swoopes. Those are our choices. Unlike teams like Ohio State or A&M who have much better options at that position. Folks, we can get the best OC money can buy, but until we settle the qb position, the offense will continue to struggle.
     
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  16. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    Heard is a redshirt freshman that has shown serious potential if developed and used in the right system. I do not think the Watson is the man to do that and really it speaks volunes about Bridgewater that he is the only QB to ever develop into an NFL player under Watson. As far as the system goes, we have no idea what system we are running. Sometimes we run a system that is great for Heard. Other times, we do not seem to run any system at all. Charlie Strong is he head coach. He needs to find the right people that can put in the right system and develop Heard.

    I think most Texas fans see the potential with Heard and do not want to see it wasted. I do not see a bad, talentless quarterback. What I saw Saturday was no game plan at all. Heard may not be Vince Young, but Vince Young was the WORST passer in 2003 (maybe not the worst, but it was really bad. Mock had to save us against tech.) Vince Young developed. We need someone to teach Heard when to throw, to not always run, etc.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 3, 2015
  17. ProdigalHorn

    ProdigalHorn 10,000+ Posts

    Well actually the other choice would be to throw the door open and see what Locksley and Merrick can do. Not having seen practice, I have no idea how big a disaster that would be. But I have to feel like the coaches have to be taking a hard look at Kai Locksley right now. Maybe Heard and Swoopes look better in practice, but it's clear that what Jay Norvell is seeing in practice is not happening in the game (because as he says "we're throwing it well in practice", which made me feel a whole lot better about things... :brickwall: sorry... digression.) So at this point maybe it's not about Heard outplaying Locksley in practice, it's about whether Locksley grasps the system and can go out and run the offense.
     
  18. Ken Barnett

    Ken Barnett 25+ Posts

    What did DKR say? "Potential" means you haven't done it yet.
     
  19. gahornphan

    gahornphan 500+ Posts

    I believe TCU was 4-8 the first year Boykin started. Do Texas fans have that kind of patience to wait for Heard to develop?
     
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  20. LtSwtCrude

    LtSwtCrude Guest

    Here's an example of the need for every element of a team to work perfectly together. No if's and's and butt's. Players, QB, head coach, coordinators, all pieces. One bad fit, and it's all she wrote. Assistants will do well in a program under an HC they match well with, plus the QB faces the same. They all do. One element out of sync, out of place, affects the rest.

    Not to mention, the distance between wing tips are not much more than between linemen in spread formation.

     
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  21. easy

    easy 2,500+ Posts

    That's is a very good point
     
  22. Horns11

    Horns11 10,000+ Posts

    TCU has better coaching.
     
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  23. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    TCU also changed offensive coordinators after going 4-8 and changed to a proper spread offense with coordinators that knew how to run the spread. Could it be changing to an offense that suited boykin with competent coordinators helped boykin succeed?
     
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  24. LtSwtCrude

    LtSwtCrude Guest

    Believe his coaching career (below) enabled him to see the situation squarely and do what he had to do. Amazing he coached 18 years before becoming a head coach.

    .757 winning percentage as HC. All at TCU. The experience in those 18 years was at defense, so I'm impressed the way he's handling the offense. All recently in his coaching career. The key was seeing, then being decisive.

    [​IMG]
     
  25. gahornphan

    gahornphan 500+ Posts

    After going 4-8, with Boykin, did the TCU fan base call for Patterson's firing and Boykin's benching and bringing in "an experienced JC transfer?" I don't know. Just wondering. And I know some of you will say, "Well, WE'RE not TCU...WE'RE TEXAS!"
    Uh huh.
    What did Patterson say before he mudholed us? "I've beaten better with less."
    We're just not that good folks. Not yet. We're like an NFL team with a roster full of rookies. They don't know what the hell they're doing, but one day they will. Potential everywhere and every once in while they'll creep up on somebody but not EVERY time. We could lose to or struggle with Kansas, Tech and WV but end up beating the crap out of Baylor. That's how young'uns are. Patience people. Patience.
     
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  26. ViperHorn

    ViperHorn 10,000+ Posts

    Clean you missed the point. If If aggy wanted the kid but did not have room for him they placed him at Blinn. I was there on a track scholarship and saw the system first hand.
     
  27. car54

    car54 1,000+ Posts

    Saying we need Arlington Lamar's OC ?????
     
  28. Statalyzer

    Statalyzer 10,000+ Posts

    Harsin did about the best he good with the QBs he had here, especially given OL play that was only slightly better than lining up 5 dead men and hoping the defenders tripped over them by mistake.
     
  29. Clean

    Clean 5,000+ Posts

    I don't know anything about that. I thought that Blinn was just a run of the mill community college. It isn't part of the A&M system.

    Hubenak signed with Okla. St. out of HS, then transferred to Blinn for whatever reason. Back during recruiting season, people said that he had an interest in UT because of our weak QB situation, but we had no interest in him. I'm pretty sure aggy didn't have a gun to his head. He could have followed his heart to wherever, as former Blinn "students" Cam Newton and Michael Bishop did.
     
  30. ViperHorn

    ViperHorn 10,000+ Posts

    Not part of the aggy system; just a cog in the aggy athletic system to stash players.
     

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