Longhorn QBs: 1998 - 2002

Discussion in 'Locker Room' started by LonghornGirlie, Jan 15, 2003.

  1. hornbybeach

    hornbybeach < 25 Posts

    Very, very good post. Thanks for all the work it took to research and write it.

    I just have a few comments.

    First, K-State in Austin ('99). As I remember that game, we were in it until the third quarter, when we let them run a punt or kick-off (I forget which) back on us. I also remember that the OL couldn't stop K-State's blitz to save themselves and that, plus an anemic running game (also partially the OL's fault) created a nearly impossible situation for Applewhite. It's a wonder we didn't lose by a larger score.

    '99 A&M game; I remember Chris doing pretty well until he was running with the ball and got nailed on the sideline by an A&M defender. After that, his play was tentative at best. But given the emotional situation, A&M was fated to win that game.

    '99 Title game; I think Major was still not entirely recovered. If I remember correctly, he was still several pounds below his earlier playing weight and he looked sluggish and fatigued. It was also a game distinguished by rotten OL play and again, it's a wonder we didn't get beat worse than we did. If memory serves, we actually held Nebraska to fewer yards and a lower score than we had when we beat them in Austin.

    '00 Cotton Bowl; dumb move to accept that bowl bid. Texas had a "been there, done that" attitude and it showed. Worst Texas performance under Brown, including the infamous 63-14 loss to OU.

    '00 season; my recollection is that Simms was the announced starter and that didn't change until after the game. But his first quarter performance definitely showed he wasn't ready to start and Applewhite led the team back to a huge win. After that is when Brown cooked up the co-starter scheme.

    the '00 Stanford game; I was there. Texas came out flat and stayed flat until the fourth quarter. Looked to me like they had just gotten off the airplane before coming to the stadium and were jet-lagged. I believe that loss was due as much to the inability of the defense to stop Stanford from moving the length of the field for a go-ahead score late in the game. I don't remember Major's play as being markedly better or worse than that of the rest of the team. It just looked to me like Stanford wanted to avenge the previous season's shellacking in Austin, while Texas had come out to Palo Alto to enjoy the scenery and the balmy weather. (Note: Stanford is one of the all-time great tailgating venues in the country.)

    '00 Holiday Bowl; this one was just on ESPN Classic, so I watched it. Simms' play impressed me more than I had remembered. Actually, I think we would have won (and he would have had his "great" comeback win) but for three dropped passes. It is also good to remember that almost that same Oregon team went on to sweep the Pac 10 and slaughter Big-12 champion Colorado in a BCS bowl the following year.

    '01 season; Applewhite was certainly questionable at the beginning of the season - two serious knee injuries (one to each knee) in the previous two seasons made his already suspect mobility even more questionable. I seem to remember him wearing a huge brace on the most recently injured knee. I don't think he could have started, but I also think Brown was feeling some pressure to start Simms after all the smoke-blowing Texas had been engaging in since landing him in '99.

    '01 OU game; the first of two losses to OU, blame for which belongs directly at the feet of the coaching staff. The game plan, such as it was, seemed to be to make a half-hearted attempt at a running game and when that failed (predictably), to send Chris back to put the ball up and hope someone in burnt orange and white caught it. Still, lame game plan and all, the game was close and winnable but for a horrendous mistake by Vasher (?) in trying to field a punt deep in our end of the field rather than letting it roll into the end zone. We had the ball inside our five as a result and the rest, as the saying goes, is history. First time I really, really began to wonder about Brown's judgment in keeping an OC who seemed to think there is something sinful about a steady, 3-yard gain.

    Championship game; the infurating thing about this one wasn't the INTs as much as it was that Simms was making the same damned mistakes he'd made against Louisiana-Lafayette. Here is one example of why I don't fault him for his possibly impolitic remarks about his college coaching. Dammit, coaches are supposed to teach, among other things, and they hadn't done a very good job of breaking him of some first-game bad habits. This game also cemented the Applewhite legend in Texas' football lore. But for a missed field goal, we would have won that game and gotten at least a rematch with Oregon if not a chance to play for the championship.

    '01 Holiday Bowl; what can I say? Major brought us back not once, but three times (2nd quarter and twice in the 4th) in one of the greatest wins in Texas' long and glorious football history. I was also at that game. Even with the ball deep in Texas' end of the field and just under two minutes to go, I knew we were going to win. The only thing that scared me was that we scored too quickly. The defense had been spotty at best all night long and I wasn't sure they could keep Washington from scoring again. No one seems to remember that our vaunted defense that year somehow managed to give up 80 points in its last two games. Benson was sidelined, so that was Davis' lame excuse for the lame running game.

    '02 OU game; another coaching loss. They overreacted to the previous year's experience and hobbled Chris when the running game, predictably, failed to produce. I thought we lost the game at the end of the second quarter, when we had OU 14-3 with under two minutes to go; let them score and then score 2 points. Then we came out conservative in the 3rd quarter and yes, yes, I know Roy Williams had his hamstring problems and Brown claimed the wind was a problem. If you believe that, I've got some great beachfront property in Tucson I want to sell you and as for Roy, yes, he was hobbled, but are you telling me we didn't have any other receivers who could catch?

    '02 Tech; I don't recall Chris's INT late in the game as the reason we lost; I recall the facts that we couldn't run on one of the worst rushing defenses in Div. 1-A; that we couldn't stop Klingsbury's passing game (which we seemed to have been able to handle in previous years), and that, again, we had them on the mat, but let them get up again in the second quarter. Brown seems never to expect that an opponent, when they're down by more than one score, might actually get up, smash us in the mouth, and try to win in spite of the deficit.

    In sum, I think Chris' shortcomings could have been and should have been cured by solid coaching after his sophomore year. He certainly seems to have fixed them himself after his junior year. And I think the losses under both quarterbacks were principally due to poor OL play, which negated the possibility of a running game and left the QB, whoever he was, exposed to the blitz. Let's hope the OL problems are history along with the former OL coach.

    Hook 'em!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. LonghornGirlie

    LonghornGirlie 500+ Posts

    Longhorn Football Preview: The Offense
    8/16/2000
    The Link

    QUARTERBACK
    The Longhorns enter the 2000 season in an enviable position at quarterback, boasting two players - junior Major Applewhite and sophomore Chris Simms - that the Longhorns' coaching staff believe are capable of starting and leading the team to victory.
     
  3. boernefan

    boernefan < 25 Posts

    I think LonghornGirlie's point was that both QB's each had a very good career and deserve a lot of credit for their contributions to our program and we should be praising them, not comparing them.

    There were extenuating circumstances which affected their careers just like every other player and team. Both represented The University well, both on and off the field. She didn't want this to get into schemes, etc.
     
  4. LonghornGirlie

    LonghornGirlie 500+ Posts

    Actually, I think we should compare them. But compare their careers side-by-side, as each developed. Don't compare freshman Simms to junior Applewhite. Don't hold either accountable for the Co-Stater monster.

    You'll find remarkably similar careers, marked by early miscues, outstanding wins, and some mistakes even as experienced players. You'll find some strange circumstances far beyond either player's control. You'll find that both players left the program stronger than when they found it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. BigOrange

    BigOrange 100+ Posts


     
  6. TexasCrush

    TexasCrush 25+ Posts

    Thank You LHG

    thats one awesome post -- posts like that make this place worth coming back too

    even when you have to weed through a lot of BS--like during the offseason [​IMG]
     
  7. HoosierHorn

    HoosierHorn 500+ Posts

    LHG,
    Can I have your autograph?
    Your analysis was great and this thread is awesome... This should be posted somewhere for the rest of the world to read. This is why I donate money to Hornfans.com - you can't get this type of info/discussion anywhere....

    I can't wait until Fall 03...
     
  8. HoosierHorn

    HoosierHorn 500+ Posts

    LHG,
    Can I have your autograph?
    Your analysis was great and this thread is awesome... This should be posted somewhere for the rest of the world to read. This is why I donate money to Hornfans.com - you can't get this type of info/discussion anywhere....

    I can't wait until Fall 03...
     
  9. Bobby_Lowe

    Bobby_Lowe First Time Poster

    "The graduation of former starter Richard Walton leaves only two QBs on the roster, Major Applewhite and Chris Simms plus backup Robert Koy. Redshirting was never an option for Chris Simms."

    =&#62; I'm generally a very docile person, but I almost punched a Simms basher over this very point while watching one of our games here in NY this year. The ignornace of our fans is really frustrating sometimes.
     
  10. bozo_casanova

    bozo_casanova 2,500+ Posts

    LHG-

    All I can say is thanks, and wow, what a great post. Instant classic - needs to be archived so that it will belong to the ages.
     
  11. hellbunny

    hellbunny 100+ Posts

    hornbybeach,

    Wow, that's pretty much exactly as I remember the past few years. Although if any of a dozen things goes our way in the 2nd Big12 championship game and we win. Great recap.

    LHG,

    Definitely archive this so we can point to it when another erruption occurs.
     
  12. horninSA

    horninSA 25+ Posts

    I think that was a huge mistake when they had the co-starters. When you have QBs that are constantly looking over their shoulder, that can make them not feel confident and it can give them one more thing to worry about.

    Also, I think Simms should have been redshirted. He hardly played when he was a freshman, so that year of eligibility was essentially wasted.

    And about that OU 2001 game, that made me so mad when Vasher made that play on like the 2 or 3 yard line. I mean, if it had turned out to be the perfect kick that dies inside the 5, you are no worse off then if you field it there. Normally, the ball would just go into the endzone and then you're in a much better position. Most people will probably just remember what Simms did, even though Roy Williams made a spectacular and unlikely play to force the INT, and what Vasher did on the said play.

    I really think both guys were good, and when people talk about how Simms was overhyped/overrated, they hardly ever mention how the media were the ones talking about him before he played. No one deserves to be harrassed, insulted, and threatened for actual or perceived poor play. This is a team game, and receivers, linemen, the defense, coaches, and various other parties also play a part. For some reason, many casual observers were quick to blame Simms, but hardly ever said much about anyone else, which seemed incredibly unfair to me. I hope nothing like this happens to future QBs, and I hope the coaches handle it better in the future.
     
  13. SynTex

    SynTex 100+ Posts

    what a solid freakin' post!!!!

    A couple of counter points:

    In the '99 season opener (vs NCSU), while Major may have appeared "capable", he had absolutely no time to throw. It was one of the worst games our OL ever played, IMO. The terrible punt protection may as well had been extended to the OL. God, god, awful, and a terrible way to start the year. but not major's fault by any stretch.

    What also stuck out to me about the '99 season was the Rutgers road game (which I was at), where the local NJ folk boo Simms when he comes for mop up duty. LIttle did I know the Longhorn "faithful" would do the same to Simms barely two years later. For shame.

    Again, what a great post. But the complexity of the starting records and mixed performances explains in some part why the media likes to blame Simms for all the losses, and give Applewhite all the wins... because the track record is murky and takes some hard investigation, a thing the media never likes to do.
     
  14. LonghornGirlie

    LonghornGirlie 500+ Posts

    In reply to:


     
  15. GunsofNavarone

    GunsofNavarone 25+ Posts

    Great post.

    I want to clarify one thing. Even if one of the three drops at the end of the 2000 Holiday Bowl had been caught, we would not have necessarily gotten the comeback win. The score at that point in the game was 35-28 Oregon. Oregon later took an intentional safety to bring the final to 35-30.
     
  16. Oilfield

    Oilfield Guest

    Herkie and Longhorn Girlie, I never brought up Major in my original post.
    .
    Yes, I think Major and Chris both had very good careers at UT. 'Girlie's post illustrates that they were both very good and also very similar.
     
  17. tltreetrunk

    tltreetrunk < 25 Posts

    I watched the bonfire game again the other day and I noticed that Chris was never quite the same after he was KO'ed 10 yards out of bounds (no flag-********). I honestly think that he had a mild concussion!
     
  18. CaptainAmerica

    CaptainAmerica 25+ Posts

    If Chris was ten years older, there'd be buidings on campus named after him.

    ****, if he was even 5 years older.
     
  19. I_Dont_Exist

    I_Dont_Exist 1,000+ Posts

    In reply to:


     
  20. LonghornGirlie

    LonghornGirlie 500+ Posts

    IDE, fair enough.

    Let's put it this way.... some true freshman QB had to forego their redshirt. The only other QBs on the roster were walkons Robert Koy and Bryan Willingham. Simms was considered the stronger prospect. As I said, redshirting was not an option for Simms. Not due to any under the table deals, but due to a lack of depth at the position.
     
  21. GHOST HORN

    GHOST HORN 100+ Posts

    bottom line is both Major and Chris did their part in bringing Texas back to the nations elite teams. however, some fans feel cheated in going 11-2. Those same fans complain when a QB is sacked. All i know is that Chris had a great career at Texas, yes, he did lose some of the tough games while he was at the helm, but by the same token Major lost some easy games when he was running the show.

    I was at UT when we were mediocre and there was less crying than when we went 11-2, maybe that is the internets fault, but either way, I really liked this thread - just because it brings out the true Horn fans and shows they are more in number than the bashers. It is always easy to criticize, the true fan cheers his/her team during the tough times.

    Prime example is those that bashed Augie were the loudest to brag about the national championship. Just goes to show you, some sad fans just cheer when you win and whine when u lose. I don't think any team or university is excluded from fans like that.

    I can only add the obvious, Simms had more pressure than any other player i can think of. Yet many fans like me cheered whether he won or lost. your post shows he lost very seldom. Hope Chris kicks *** in the NFL.
     
  22. kyler

    kyler 100+ Posts

    LHG, just a coupla minor corrections. Major's 1st game was against NewMexSt. and we lost to ucla 49-31.
     
  23. LonghornGirlie

    LonghornGirlie 500+ Posts

    kyler, I'm just going by the game recap in the 1999 media guide which does not mention Major playing in that game. They usually make note of something like that, although we did have a good enough lead that he might have gotten some mop-up duty. New Mexico State did score 3 touchdowns in the 4th quarter though, so with their offense mounting an attack, I can see Mack leaving the starting QB in there.

    You are absolutely right about the final score of the UCLA game. I must have had some sort of brain fart. I've made the correction. Thanks.

    If someone can find the game-by-game or season stats for 1998, I'd appreciate it.
     
  24. LazyEngineer

    LazyEngineer 500+ Posts

    It would be interesting to know the average ranking of the defenses that the two faced. Particularly this year, I think Chris did very well against some outstanding defenses.

    K-State - #1 - win
    LSU - #5 - win
    North Texas - #9 win
    Oklahoma - #13 loss
    Texas A&M - #35 - win

    I think it would be interesting to see how they both fared against top 25 defenses.
     
  25. Orangeblood

    Orangeblood 1,000+ Posts

    Hey, where's the love for a possible back-up QB named Beau Trahan!? [​IMG]

    Who can forget the infamous (and coach ignored) chants of "Let Beau throw!!" at the Kansas game.
     
  26. LonghornGirlie

    LonghornGirlie 500+ Posts

    The "fairest" way to look at that, within the context of this post, is how Major fared against top defenses through his last 13 starts (13th through 26th of his career). This year encompassed Chris' 18th - 29th starts. Keep in mind that I am treating the first 5 games of 2000 as a separate entity and not crediting or debiting either QB for those games as starters.

    I'm not up for doing the research, but if you want to look it up, the opponents Applewhite faced through that part of his career were:

    1999
    Stanford W 69-17 Missouri W 35-16
    Rutgers W 38-21 Baylor W 49-10
    Rice W 18-13 Kansas W 59-0
    Baylor W 62-0 Texas A&M W 21-7
    #13 K-State L 17-35 #9 Colorado L 37-39
    OU W 38-28 2002 North Texas W 27-0
    Texas Tech W 58-7 North Carolina W 52-21
    #3 Nebraska L 6-22 Houston W 41-11
    #24 Arkansas L 6-27 Tulane W 49-0
    2000
    #25 Colorado W 28-14 OSU W 17-15
    Missou W 46-12 #2 OU L 24-35
    Baylor W 48-14 #13 K-State W 17-14
    Texas Tech W 29-17 Nebraska W 27-24
    2001
    #21 Washington W 47-43 Baylor W 41-0

    Granted, this is the stage of Applewhite's career which was marked by limited starting time which dramatically affected his 2000 and 2001 seasons. But the idea is to compare Applewhite and Simms at similar stages of each individual's career.

    Obviously, Applewhite didn't have the opportunity to get "credit" for playing some of the teams we faced in 2001. One should also note that he had sustained two major injuries by 2001 which may or may not have affected his overall play, whereas Chris was lucky enough to not have to face two stints of major rehabilitation (although popping a finger back into joint without missing a play has to be less than fun).
     
  27. LonghornGirlie

    LonghornGirlie 500+ Posts

    As for you, Orangeblood, you know well enough that I was a major contributor to the "Let Beau Throw" political action committee.
     
  28. Orangeblood

    Orangeblood 1,000+ Posts

    I realize that, but he was a RS Frosh in 1999. And he played QB in HS. Just thought he should be added into the mix.
     
  29. Hey, you two - take it offline [​IMG]

    Great post, LHG!
     
  30. hornbybeach

    hornbybeach < 25 Posts

    Tree Trunk, that's the way I remember the bonfire game. I don't think Chris ever seriously tried running with the ball again. I think his father or someone got to him and discouraged him from even attempting to be a scrambling QB after that (anyone else remember two of the things people said about him when he was recruited were that he was quick and a good runner out of the pocket?).

    Hook 'em!
     

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