When Jesus returns, he'll probably say something along the lines of what Cobb told Saito - "I've come back for you... to remind you of something. Something you once knew... that this world is not real."
Gadfly, there are different schools of thought out there. I have studied this recently and I would put the order this way. Rapture/2nd Coming Armageddon 1st Resurrection (the resurrection of believers) 1000 years of peace from Christ's reign Final Destruction of Satan 2nd Resurrection (of unbelievers) Judgment Day
Oh well... Thanks Mona. Doesn't look like there's much room in Christian theology for the non-believers. There is that one passage in Romans, but I'm not one to put too much faith in Paul. The one problem is that the Bible doesn't really clearly define who is going to hell - accept what Christ said for the rich and possibly self-righteous religious fundamentalist. Add them both together to get TV evangelists and rich super-church pastors, ha!
Rapture/2nd Coming Armageddon 1st Resurrection (the resurrection of believers) 1000 years of peace from Christ's reign Final Destruction of Satan 2nd Resurrection (of unbelievers) Judgment Day Such a incredibly strange god these Christians claim. Powerful enough to create the cosmos and everything in it, yet when disappointed with his creation he can’t think of any other way to get past it than a brutal human sacrifice. Infinite punishment for a finite sin. The end-of-days theatrics: wars, resurrection, temporary peace, more fighting, another resurrection, judgment, monsters, lake of fire, etc. What a ******* petty little drama queen. I say bring back Zeus. Now that was a god.
Gadfly, it is pretty cut and dried who is saved and who isn't. Those who believe that Jesus died for their sins, was buried and raised on the 3rd day is saved. All others not. Peter, Paul, Luke, John. They all agree on that.
Hello Coel, On your first explanation. Fair enough. I do not wish to challenge your faith, and you've explained it sufficiently for my tastes.
Here's the simple easy deal: either you believe that Jesus is who He said He is, and if so, you then must believe His words. IF you believe that, then Mr Bell's words do not line up. IF they dont, Mr Bell's might. I am always going to err on the side of God's words, vice man's.
No doubt a pointless and predictable debate. You guys are right. The intelligent Mormons and Witnesses are wrong. The Nicaean Creed lives. Bow to Constantine. I don't know how you can read that from Christ's own mouth and just dismiss it. I'm sure you're aware of other quotes which call into question the trinity and its nature. Mona and Coel. You are two posters whom I respect the most in all of the forums I read (and mop - he does a great job on debates although he seems to avoid these), so no doubt a debate, on yet a new subject, would be ongoing. You both are intelligent enough to prove any point. However, I think you just proved my point. My belief: Your belief is based on faith and not entirely on the facts – not even the facts presented in your own divine text. You point out the contradiction without discussing it or even giving it an honest consideration. I’m not sure I’m guilty of the same, but I am envious of your faith. I think belief in the supernatural has a positive effect if used properly. We all know the belief in Christ’s divinity is a long held debate. I do thank you both. I think you stand as examples of how veracious and intelligent Christians can be and are. I would hope you stand as faith builders to those who agree with you. I wish you could convince even the most skeptical curmudgeons like me.
Gadfly, it's not about faith in this instant. You can correctly interpret this issue without believing it. You don't have to believe that Jesus is really God to understand that the Bible states it. I didn't ignore Jesus statement in John 14:28. But you are taking statements out of context and basing your beliefs on that. That is a mistake whether you are trying to understand the Bible or Calculus. All I ask is that you base your understanding of the Bible on the Bible as a whole and not pick verses out of context. That was the only point I was trying to make.
