More work, same pay -- advice...

Discussion in 'Quackenbush's' started by Bevo5, Jan 26, 2008.

  1. Bevo5

    Bevo5 1,000+ Posts

    So...I'll keep this short and to the point.

    Back at the beginning of November my direct supervisor was removed from his position and I was asked to "fill-in" as the head of the group. Without going into too much detail, I work in an ad agency and the group I'm running represents probably about 60% of the business.

    So I'm told that although I'm young and have no prior experience as a group head, I would be given the opportunity to lead it until there was a glaring need to bring in someone more senior. Basically, it's mine to screw up. As long as I continue to do a great job, I will continue to be in charge.

    I didn't bring up the idea of a pay raise at this point because I thought it would be best to turn the group around, do great work, and then come back in a couple months and be like "what up now beeatches?"

    So -- I did that. The group is more productive, the work is better, and people are happy. I asked for more money and I was told the company is waiting to sign new contracts and as soon as that is done, I'll be taken care of. Thing is, there is no sign this is going to happen anytime soon.

    It's a tricky situation because it's HARD work. I'm working mroe than I ever did, I'm getting flak from clients/account people/etc that I wasn't getting before. I'm having to discipline people in my group..it's just a lot of responsibility.

    I'm worried that as soon as these contracts are signed (could be months) that they'll be flush with money and bring in the senior group head they've been waiting on. At that point I'm back to my old duties, without so much as a thank you from the powers that be.

    I'm really starting to feel like they are taking advantage of me. But at the same time, I can't do anything about it. If I resign my position I will never see more money, or the chance to be a group head again. At the same time, I'm busting my balls doing work that I was not hired to do.

    Any ideas on the correct way to handle this? I was thinking about talking to my boss and trying to get (maybe in writing) the conditions of my raise for once the contract goes through.

    Just venting...ugh....
     
  2. OldHippie

    OldHippie 2,500+ Posts

    A similar thing happened to me once. When my next annual review came around I wrote a letter to the supervisor pointing out that by working X number of extra hours I had saved the company X dollars which was the salary they didn't have to pay the other position during that time. Then I requested a 25% raise, which was far less than the money that I had already saved the company by my extra work. I didn't get a 25% raise but I did get double the raise I would have received.

    Edit: I should point our that my situation was significantly different than yours in that I was not put into a supervisory position, merely asked to do twice the work until they decided to rehire the other position.

    If they continue to screw you, look for another job, citing the supervisory experience you have gained. Good luck.
     
  3. next2naus

    next2naus 500+ Posts

    give it six more months then bolt if they don't pay you more. I have tons of friends here in NYC that are in the ad business and they move around all the time. give them the opportunity to do right and if not take your new found management experience and go get paid
     
  4. MizzouSnives

    MizzouSnives 500+ Posts

    In the ad business in particular, no one will hold it against you for jumping jobs from the situation you're in. I would make it clear you're not comfortable keeping the ship afloat for pennies on the dollar of what you're worth, and if you don't see a future developing (ie raises, etc) then you're better off elsewhere.

    good luck in your decision. I would encourage you to stand up for yourself and make your needs clear to your company.
     
  5. Napoleon

    Napoleon 2,500+ Posts

    My buddy in advertising encountered somewhat similar stuff in LA. He was in "Account Planning". Well, the short version is-

    Contact head hunters and explain your position and what you are doing. It's much easier to get promotions by moving to another company, than it is to stick around.

    My buddy was basically making about HALF what he should have been, because he was a loyal employee and he liked the people he worked with. He won to GOLD Effies (sp?) for that company and he still had issues, especially when they brought in someone above him who basically wanted to get rid of anyone who had been working on the company's biggest account.

    MOVE ON!! They will f**k you if they can.

    suerte
     
  6. Bevo5

    Bevo5 1,000+ Posts

    They will for sure f**k you if they can...absolutely.

    I'm a copywriter, meaning I basically just concept and write the ads. In my line of work, the way you get new jobs is by showing your portfolio. So it's a tricky situation for me. Me being a group creative director (new title) at this place will not translate anywhere else. In fact, i can't bring that up because peole would laugh at me considering I have only 5years experience.

    Unless my group did some awesome work, i'm gaining nothing from the new title once I leave.

    One side issue -- other groups at this agency are being scaled back with layoffs because of business losses. My group is getting larger, but I'm fairly certain any request for money from me would be met with something about not being a team player, the agency is not in that position right now, etc. etc.

    Like your friend, I'm loyal to a fault.

    But, in the end, it's only advertising.
     
  7. CleverNickname

    CleverNickname 500+ Posts

    Maybe ask for a imporved title, with similar pay to your current situation. At least that will set you up for a future jump.
     
  8. Summerof79

    Summerof79 2,500+ Posts

    a) Get the title right now and new business cards. If they balk at taht then you KNOW you are getting set up for the screw job.

    b) Keep tab on your hours, extra time, responsibilities etc, so you can DOCUMENT the additional value you have added while the company saved the salary of your once superior.

    c) You missed the opportunity when they gave you the line about "new contracts" which may or may not be true. You ahould have discussed then what your expectations should be after the "signings" were complete. Without knowing this you have no basis for your decision making regarding your future with your present employer.

    I would go in and ask for the title right now, it only costs them the cost of business cards. PLUS if you do engage a head hunter or look for other employment all they know is your job title and responsibilites anyhow in most cases, not your salary.
     
  9. BigOHorn

    BigOHorn 100+ Posts

    you can do what others have mentioned and maybe in 6 months you'll get a 5% raise maybe more...i'm saying go get a new job offer....I'm not saying take it but nothing ignites a fire under people's asses like the thought of losing a good person...I'm not saying not to take it...i'm saying have options...
     
  10. William Cannon

    William Cannon 250+ Posts

    You could look at it two ways:
    1) They're dick'n ya over like everyone else is saying. No need to elaborate much further.
    2) You're lucky to be awarded such an opportunity and should be thankful that this is a step in the right direction for your career. Look at it like an investment - you don't know if you would otherwise be offered an opportunity with supervisory duties. If all fails, you’re getting the experience and when you apply for the next job, you can apply with supervisory experience for a supervisory position.

    If I was your boss and you had no prior experience running a group, then I would not have given you a raise. Not only would you have to turn the group around, but also demonstrate that you are capable of keeping it together. So this doesn't come as a surprise to me. I would expect a certain amount of growth and expect that you demonstrate that you and your team are capable of at least consistently meeting expectations. Think of it as the interim coach’s trial period before a team hires a new coach, after all it’s only been 3 months.

    Another thing to keep in mind....Just like with anything else, someone with entry level experience commands a different salary requirement than someone with experience. In addition, the salary for senior individual contributor could overlap with that of a supervisor with little experience.

    With that said, that "wait until contracts are signed" line does sound like a stall tactic, which I wouldn’t appreciate being lied to. However, it could be that they are still seeing what you’re made of. Just food for thought – you know your company better than I do. However, keep a good attitude about your situation and everyone will be happier (including you). Keep a level head and keep in mind that it's only been 3 months.

    Good luck.
     
  11. zzzz

    zzzz 2,500+ Posts

    You could be well-positioned for the future, so don't shoot yourself in the foot. Get in tight with the client if you can. It sounds like your agency would value that relationship more than the work.
     
  12. Texas_Rocks

    Texas_Rocks 500+ Posts


     
  13. DCLonghorn8

    DCLonghorn8 250+ Posts

    I spent some time in PR firms, which is structured very much the same way as ad agencies and are mostly owned by the same parent companies (WPP for me).

    It is very much a part of the plan of many of the firms to work the junior and mid level people to the bone until they move on. They think of everyone who wasn’t hired to the firm as VP or SVP (or equivalent) from the outside as junior and mid level. Even if you rise to those positions, they pretty much think of you, and more importantly, pay you as if you are still junior or mid-level.

    I heard our US president and also the head of our DC office (I also worked in a Houston office) explain with some skill and flourish how they "professionally develop" junior and mid level talent and "work them to the bone" and fully expect them to move on to other firms and them they can hire them back as senior folks later. They saw this attitude of working them hard and paying them low as a good thing…a part of a person’s professional development.

    Basically, I was impressed that even PR folks could spin the meat-grinder aspects of the business as a positive thing.

    It was part of the game plan to let folks step in and lead teams as needed and not pay them for it or give them the title. The only folks who got paid appropriately to run teams were those that were hired from the outside and brought a decent book of business to offset the money.

    Long story short, having been in this same boat, don’t even think about your current situation as compared you what you think you deserve. It will only cause you stress and you can’t really control it. Try not to think of it as compared to others in your office, although that can be helpful in internal negotiations. Only compare your current situation to what you can get from another firm. That is the only real currency that will get you the bump you deserve. Almost always, it’s best to move on to move up in the communications firms.

    And amen to the thought about building client relationships. Those become the book of business you bring to the new firm within the confines of contractual legalities. Or at the very least, you can poach one of them and work for yourself for a while as you look for a new gig if you have to.

    Best of luck.
     
  14. DCLonghorn8

    DCLonghorn8 250+ Posts

    And to add more possible fun to the fire, if your firm is owned by one of the three conglomo-firms, it can get pretty tough to get a raise if it has to be run up to the higher ups in London or Paris.

    Here's hoping you work for an independent firm that will pay you what you deserve as soon as you lay out your recent performance.
     
  15. The Bloak

    The Bloak 100+ Posts

    I second the advice re: get another offer.

    I was in a similar situation you were. I was getting very frustrated so I decided to start networking to see what else was out there.

    I received a few offers and I went to my employer and put it on the table: these companies are offering me X given my experience, yet you are paying me this (it was a noticeable difference). I really enjoy working here but because this is such a drastic difference, I can't just ignore their offers.

    A day later, my company offered me more than what the others were proposing and all was well in the world.....it was a risk but one I had to take.

    Best of luck.
     
  16. William Cannon

    William Cannon 250+ Posts


     
  17. Ramathorn

    Ramathorn 1,000+ Posts

    WC, do you work for a large company?
     
  18. The Bloak

    The Bloak 100+ Posts

    WC, I'm not in the ad business and I don't think it was a matter of holding my company hostage.

    I was happy at my current job but I started networking just out of curiosity to "see whats out there". I think we all do it. When company A, B, C said they would pay me $30,000+ more than I was making, to me, that was substantial.

    I only went to my employer first, rather than just giving notice, to let them know that while I liked working there, I couldn't ignore that kind of money. No holding hostage, just business.
     
  19. William Cannon

    William Cannon 250+ Posts


     
  20. William Cannon

    William Cannon 250+ Posts


     
  21. The Bloak

    The Bloak 100+ Posts

    To be honest, I think they were anticipating I would approach them at some point regarding salary. I say this because they said they knew it was only a matter of time before the topic came up.......I guess they were just trying to pinch pennies while they could knowing that they weren't paying market value.

    Glad I did my homework and acted on that whim 'to see what else is out there.'
     
  22. Hornin Hong Kong

    Hornin Hong Kong 1,000+ Posts


     

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