Move to SEC still a good idea?

Discussion in 'On The Field' started by SteveInAustin, Dec 1, 2021.

  1. Gladius&Pilum

    Gladius&Pilum 100+ Posts

    Did you want the A&M game to continue back in 2011 when A&M announced it was joining the SEC? My recollection is that most UT fans felt A&M should be punished for exiting the Big12.
     
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  2. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 10,000+ Posts

    My recollection is that most UT fans felt the SEC was punishing themselves by bringing you weirdos into the fold, and we were damned happy to be rid of you.
     
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  3. moondog_LFZ

    moondog_LFZ 2,500+ Posts

    I didn't want aggy punished.
    Was glad to see their brand of delusion gone.
    Never wanted or cared about playing them again.
    Worst part of joining SEC is here they come again.
     
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  4. MajorRules00

    MajorRules00 500+ Posts

    I suspect aggy will be in a different pod. If that's the way the new SEC will be structured.
     
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  5. Gladius&Pilum

    Gladius&Pilum 100+ Posts

    Possible, but not likely. SEC has two directives, make Disney happy and make Bama happy. Disney will want the most intriguing match ups. UT vs A&M will be a ratings bonanza for at least the first few seasons. I expect the Lonestar Showdown will be an annual event again if UT follows through with the move.
     
  6. MajorRules00

    MajorRules00 500+ Posts

    Making money is absolutely directive one. Which is why the SEC West/East is (slightly) more likely than pods. Because each season features guaranteed matchups of:

    Texas--OU
    Bama-Florida
    Texas--Arky
    Bama-Georgia
    Bama-Tennessee
    Bama-Auburn
    Texas--Texas A&M
    Auburn-Georgia
    OU-Aggy
    Texas--LSU
    LSU--OU
    LSU-Aggy
    Auburn-Florida
    OU-Arky
    Florida-Georgia

    Plus whatever cross-divisional series the SEC arranges. $$$$$
     
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  7. MajorRules00

    MajorRules00 500+ Posts

    You're missing the boat on this one. Nobody gives a crap about the Big 12. The ire was due to aggy leaving US.
     
  8. Handler

    Handler 500+ Posts

    Well we could use that easy "W" every year.
     
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  9. Gladius&Pilum

    Gladius&Pilum 100+ Posts

    This does not compute. My recollection is that A&M offered to continue playing UT in all sports. If A&M was willing to do that, how could one construe it as "leaving US"? Further, since A&M is neither relevant nor a rival, it's difficult to grasp how the change in conference could generate any ire at all.
     
  10. moondog_LFZ

    moondog_LFZ 2,500+ Posts

    As far as I know it didn't.
    The general consensus I saw was "don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya".
    I witnessed no great gnashing of teeth.
    We did not want to play you ever again.
    It served no purpose.
     
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  11. 1sahorn

    1sahorn 500+ Posts

    Much of the ire had to do with the WAY aggy exited...holier than thou, evil sips, screw you guys...we're leaving. Things could have been much more cordial, but aggy left like a monkey slinging poo at everyone...monkey see; monkey do, aggy see; aggy sling poo. I never wanted to play aggy again in anything. Then came CDC offering to play again. Thought it funny as s#¡t you guys couldn't play cuz you already had a terribly difficult schedule...Prarie View A&M, Tarelton, UIW Girls Choir.
     
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  12. Chinstrap

    Chinstrap 1,000+ Posts

    So far this bowl season it seems be pointing to a Texas move to a weaker conference.
     
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  13. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 10,000+ Posts

    To be fair, some of those girls can really hit.
     
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  14. Vino Bevo

    Vino Bevo Wine - how classy people get drunk

    Growing up in San Antonio I can confirm...
     
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  15. MajorRules00

    MajorRules00 500+ Posts

    I'll address your last premise first, Aggie. I've always considered A&M to be a rival. Some people may say otherwise, but I grew up in Texas and that game was always a big deal.

    The last conference title for A&M football was 1998. One of the reasons aggy left was to become more relevant. Specifically, by gaining a recruiting advantage in the SEC. Being the only SEC school in the State of Texas was a feather in the cap for our friends in College Station.

    Texas knew that this would, over time, translate into a real advantage. Because A&M could offer something that no other Texas school could: SEC membership. Therefore, it made great sense to quarantine aggy from all other major universities in the State. That was a business move. It had nothing to do with how alums of either school felt.

    Now to the ire: I believe many Texas fans viewed the move as a betrayal. Because it wasn't just a change from one conference to another. It was a move to get away from Texas. This was a personal slight to many UT fans. Though pride won't allow many of them to verbalize it. This feeling of betrayal was vocalized as a gripe about aggy leaving the conference. But that was merely a pretext.

    I believe both universities will benefit from the upcoming move. When Texas begins SEC play, they will effectively seal off the State, recruiting-wise, from other conferences. Most of the top talent that formerly went to the Big 12 will now go to the SEC schools. And that means Texas, A&M, OU, and to a lesser extent, Arky and LSU, will all benefit.

    Additionally, playing in the same conference will help both schools' identity. Let's face it: both Texas and Texas A&M define themselves, at least in part, as not being the weirdos from the other school. Texas fans view aggy as a delusional hillbilly cult, and A&M fans view Texas as a bunch of dirty pothead freaks. Not having the "other" around has actually hurt both schools' identities.

    So while I understand the trepidation from each of the respective fanbases, IMO it's unwarranted. This move will help both $chools.
     
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  16. CreakyHorn

    CreakyHorn 500+ Posts

    aggy says we're arrogant - they're right (go review the posts if you disagree). We say aggy is a bit unhinged - well yeah! This is not just a rivalry but a culture clash. Aggy has outperformed us over the past few years and is proving to be quite the recruiting rival. If we want to prove our superiority, then we have to meet them on the field. I am, and always have been, a fan of playing them. It's good for football and it's good for this forum.
     
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  17. Gladius&Pilum

    Gladius&Pilum 100+ Posts

    On this we agree, the two schools are rivals. OU may be UT’s primary rival, but A&M is certainly on the radar.

    This is certainly one of the reasons for the change. The primary reason was the splintered nature of the Big12 after NU and CU departed. After surveying the landscape of CFB, A&M brass were convinced that the Big12 would have considerable difficulty keeping pace with the B1G and SEC monetarily. Additionally, given UT had almost jumped to the PAC the previous year, there was zero confidence that UT wouldn’t again look for greener pastures (and in 2021 they did just that). A&M decided it was best to take action to ensure the destination was one of its choosing. The final straw was Dan Beebe’s handling of A&M’s concerns about the LHN. Beebe refused to take action on the continuing additions to the Network’s content above and beyond that which was agreed upon at a meeting of AD’s in late 2010. Specifically the addition of conference football games and the telecast of prospective recruits’ high school football games on the LHN. Had Beebe taken a firm stance against these additions instead of being Dodds’ lickspittle, A&M likely wouldn’t have had the political will to follow through with the plan. Once A&M saw it wouldn’t get a fair shake from the league office, the die was cast. Beebe’s favoritism was so blatant that OU used the (idle) threat of joining the PAC in 2011 to force his ouster. Interestingly, OU’s threat was the true target of Baylor’s last minute retraction of its forfeiture of legal claims surrounding A&M’s conference exit. It was Ken Starr’s way of saying “Hey PAC12, Ima give you the White Water treatment if you poach OU”.

    My take is that Dodds recalled what happened to Arkansas after they left the SWC. Arky lost all of its traditional rivals and has basically fallen off the map. It went from a perennial contender for the conference crown in the SWC, to an also-ran. The strategy of SWC teams not playing Arky worked to perfection. Other than a couple of good years under Petrino, their program has been dog plop. I believe Dodds felt the same would happen to A&M. It was actually a huge strategic blunder on Dodds’ part not to continue the series. By playing A&M, any SEC advantage could be nullified with a UT victory. A recruit might tell a Longhorn coach that he wants to play in the SEC. The coach would be able to tell him, we play the SEC every year. Instead, Dodds enhanced A&M’s SEC exclusivity by refusing to continue the series. Imagine the added intensity of determining both team AND conference superiority every Thanksgiving. CDC came on board and pretty quickly saw the error. He tried to get A&M back on the schedule as soon as he could. By then A&M had wised up to the true benefit of its SEC exclusivity and declined. CDC then did the next best thing and scheduled several other SEC schools so his coaches could tell recruits “We play SEC teams every year except A&M because they’re afraid of us.”

    Wasn’t expecting this level of intellectual honesty.

    I don’t really see how A&M benefits in this scenario. It loses a major recruiting advantage against its two closest rival programs. It loses the opportunity to eclipse UT in conference revenue. It gains nothing other than the same increase in revenue that the rest of the conference members will receive. I don’t think either school is having an identity crisis. Also, A&M fans don’t see UT as a bunch of dirty potheads. That’s how A&M fans view Austin. A&M fans view UT as a bunch of arrogant, entitled, tea-sippers… it’s just the tried and true blue-collar vs. white-collar dynamic.


    In the end, A&M saw joining the SEC as being in its best interest in 2011 and took steps to make it happen. In 2021, UT came to the same conclusion and followed suit
     
  18. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 10,000+ Posts

    There has never been a high school football game telecast on the Longhorn Network.
     
  19. Gladius&Pilum

    Gladius&Pilum 100+ Posts

    Correct. I was referencing the proposed changes to the agreed-upon content. Beebe initially refused to put a halt to what was a pretty obvious NCAA violation. A&M was forced to petition the NCAA for a ruling since Beebe was too deep in Dodds' hip pocket to challenge the proposed addition. The NCAA ruling confirmed A&M's objection.
     
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  20. LonghornDave

    LonghornDave 1,000+ Posts

    for my money, this could be accomplished by five team pods. Just add Clemson and FSU, shaken, not stirred. 1) Texas, OU, Arky, Aggie, Mo. 2) LSU, miss, m state, bama, auburn 3) FSU, FLA, Georgia, USC, Clemson 4) Tenn, Ky, Vandy, (Virginia, NC, ND, Mich or OSU) Maybe State Penn. We would play every team at least every 5 years.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 31, 2021
  21. ViperHorn

    ViperHorn 10,000+ Posts

    G&P, like all of us, your memory sometimes fails you.

    Any aggy discussion on the LHN issue starts and stops with the fact that aggy twice turned town being a part of what would have been a Texas Network.

    ou has been Texas' rival since the Wilkinson era. aggy was a traditional game played on Thanksgiving (later changed to Thanksgiving weekend for TV).

    Other than forgetting to mention that Aggy athletics was basically broke (bankrupt in real world terms) no other comment on Major's description of the reason aggy left the Big XII was necessary. It was all in the open for everyone to see. Cash was needed. At least the $EC offered a chance to right the financial ship and attempt to slow down the East Texas LSU recruiting successes.
     
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  22. Gladius&Pilum

    Gladius&Pilum 100+ Posts

    A&M turned down an offer in 2007 to partner with UT on a "Lonestar Network". This iteration of the concept included UT and A&M covering all of the startup costs of the network. Additionally, there was no distributor in place and the viability of a two-school network was sketchy at best. There simply wasn't enough demand for a two-school network given the most desirable content was already allocated to the league's media partners. The LHN's failures throughout its existence has shown A&M's evaluation of the demand for such a network to be spot on.

    The only reason the LHN even happened was because ESPN needed a lever to scuttle UT's PAC10 gambit. If the threat of losing half of the Big12 to a Fox Sports property (the PAC10) had not existed, the LHN would have remained an unrealized dream. ESPN knew from the get-go the LHN would fail to generate revenue commensurate with its $300 million investment. But that was a small price compared to the massive financial outlays that would have been triggered by full-on conference realignment.

    Once the parameters of the deal came out, A&M AD Bill Byrne reached out to Dodds to inquire about his interest in revisiting the idea of a partnership. Dodds rightly told him to pound sand. Why should UT share a windfall when ESPN was perfectly willing to give the entirety to UT?

    In short the Lonestar Network that A&M turned down was NOTHING like the LHN offer that UT received to stay in the Big12.

    Duly noted.

    A&M's athletic dept was indeed cash strapped (to the point of requiring a $17 million "loan" from the school itself). However, that had been remedied in June of 2010 when the Big12 media partners agreed to continue paying the conference as though it had 12 members instead of 10. The additional $13 million per year was sufficient to balance the books. Any additional cash A&M would get by joining the SEC was merely icing on the cake.

    That's not to say that money was a minor reason for the move. It was a big one. However, the biggest reason was A&M's confidence that the Big12 would lose viability over time and more schools would leave. If A&M didn't strike while the iron was hot, it risked being forced to accompany other schools to a conference that was not the best fit.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2022
  23. mchammer

    mchammer 10,000+ Posts

    In other words, unlike the pull that Texas has. You better be careful, what you said is against the belief of 95% of Texags.
     
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  24. Gladius&Pilum

    Gladius&Pilum 100+ Posts

    Duly noted.
     
  25. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 10,000+ Posts

  26. 1sahorn

    1sahorn 500+ Posts

    ...Because aggy kept getting banned from T.V. for NCAA violations (read: cheating).
     
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  27. MajorRules00

    MajorRules00 500+ Posts

    That assessment was spot on. Nebraska leaving was a HUGE blow to the conference. The Big 12 has been taking on water ever since.
     
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  28. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 10,000+ Posts

    And yet, so has Nebraska. As much as the BigXII suffered from losing the Huskers, they have suffered more.
     
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  29. William Bush

    William Bush 25+ Posts

    And deserved every bit of it.
     
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  30. Gladius&Pilum

    Gladius&Pilum 100+ Posts

    Colorado and Mizzou were also huge losses given that each had pretty significant media markets.

    I've always kinda felt bad for Colorado. They joined the PAC expecting 5 other Big12 schools to be joining them. They would still have some traditional rivals (OU, oSu, and to a lesser extent UT) while still enjoying the "newness" of being in the PAC.

    Additionally the travel expenses were to be mitigated because they would be playing the other 5 Big12 schools every year. Instead, they got left at the altar and now find themselves in the role of being the PAC's Arkansas.
     
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