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Discussion in 'Men’s Basketball' started by anteater1973, Mar 25, 2016.
How is it that Turner scores more points and plays better in the NBA than he ever did at UT?
He's 20 years old now, rather than 18, with 2 additional years of college/NBA experience, and he's still growing up physically and emotionally?
Shaka could have done great things with Turner, but he was always going pro, after one year.
He's actually trying now.
Barnes didn't even give him a chance. Didn't start, didn't see enough minutes. Kid should have been playing 30 minutes a game and developing during his frosh year. You could see the talent.
This thread is similar to football threads where people think that a true freshman QB can be as good as vince young day 1. Turner was no KD.
Turner did not look that great when he got time. Turner would have had more minutes, like KD or numerous Rick Barnes freshman had, if he was better that year. Extra time would have helped him develop and resulted in a worse record for that year's team. Since Barnes was fired either way, and Turner was going to develop in the NBA either way, looks like it did not matter.
Last year's team was derailed by a Taylor injury, went 20-14, and lost in the first round of the tournament. This year's team was derailed by a Ridley injury, went 20-13, and lost in the first round of the tournament. The real irrational anger should be directed at barnes for recruiting players that ended up injured.
Nobody did "less with more" than Barnes. He was widely considered one of the most overrated coaches in the game (including in 2012, 2013, and 2015). Shaka has already done more than Barnes did last year with less. This year's team had many more big wins against top teams (4 against the top 10) than last year's team (0). Hell, Rick Barnes only took KD's team to the 2nd round. It wasn't about injuries. It was about perennial underachievement. This program is improving and moving forward.
Did he have less? He had nearly same team with more experience. Only difference is the freshman players both teams had. However, none of those freshman ended up beint impact freshmen for either team. Both teams had midseason injuries to key players.
Neither 2014-2015 nor 2015-2016 did as well as 2013-14, despite the fact the players themselves were more experienced and developed. Why? Key injuries.
We've had almost entirely the same players 3 years in a row.
Now did 2015-2016 Texas do more? Texas lost in the second round of the Big 12 tournament and first round of the ncaa tournament both years. Texas won the exact same number of games both years (20). Only our biased fanbase could call the same "doing more."
There is 1 difference. Last year, despite the same record, we were an 11 seed facing a 6 seed. The reason was good college basketball teams had better records last year. This year we were a 6 seed facing an 11. So, with the same players, would losing to a team seeded 5 places below you be doing more than losing to a team seeded 5 places above you?
2013-2014 Texas was a 7 seed, beat a 10 seed and lost to a 2 seed.
Now this year's team had upsets. This year's team also had terrible losses including to a TCU team that fired their coach (Barnes never lost to TCU). Why? Shaka's havoc/run & shoot system, like with Penders, is by its nature upset prone. That goes both ways. The system will lead to more upsets and being upset more often. The fact this year was a bigger roller coaster ride to achieve the same results is not evidence of doing more.
Also, it's funny you bring up KD's team. Texas went to the elite 8 the year before KD and the year after KD. Why? Experience. Every scholarship player on KD's team was a freshman or sophomore. The unfortunate thing with KD was he showed up in a rebuilding year. The team around him was too young. Apparently that is ancient history and no one remembers anymore....
We also had the toughest strength of schedule in the country this year. Our end-of-year RPI this year was 27. Last year, it was 42. Regardless of experience, Barnes consistently underperformed his seed. Most people believe that Shaka exceeded expectations this season.
Turner and Holmes combined, contributed 20 points, 12 boards, 4 blocks in 24 mins per game last season. Shaka didn't replace that production or efficiency with this years roster. I'd say Shaka had less.
Turner was not much for the college game the moment he stepped on campus. Barnes wanted him to play a big man style instead of a rangey offensive threat. Turner had that great game against OU and then basically called it quits down the stretch so that he would be healthy for pre-draft workouts/auditions. His game against Butler showed exactly what he had on the mind.
The NBA doesn't have the same rules as college in terms of workouts, practices, summer stuff, etc. Guys like that kid from Kentucky who averaged 3 points can just show up for the draft and get to work. When the NBA changed the rules to prohibit 18-year-olds from declaring, everyone hailed it as a victory for colleges everywhere, and we got Durant because of it. But I think it's run its course. The big business of AAU and NBA readiness vastly outweighs developing college players.
It looks like Turner still thinks of himself as a Horn which won't hurt future recruiting.
Turner should have been our Kevin Garnett when he was at Texas. Rangey, forcing defenders to switch a lot, moving without the ball more, etc.
Instead, Barnes tried to turn him into a Chris Mihm. Be in position to rebound, and you're gold, Turner! I think Myles (and whoever was advising him about his NBA prospects) saw through the schtick and closed up shop so that he wouldn't get hurt. It showed in his late-season minutes at Texas, and in our on-court success.
Barnes should have known Turner was only going to stick around for a year and just let him play his game (like Mack did with VY).
Turner was not good two years ago. He has gotten better with age and experience. Even when Barnes let him play a lot, he did not do anything.
Also, Barnes has a history of letting guys like Durant and Aldridge, etc play. Turner is aberration, not the norm, for NBA players under Barnes. The evidence indicates the problem was Turner.
Turner just was not developed when he got here. Or maybe he was not trying hard and Austin was just a pit stop until the NBA. He was not great on the court.
Whether the problem was Barnes or Turner, I still wish he would have stayed last year to play under Shaka. I'm not sure exactly how much difference he would have made but I will say we wouldn't have been bounced in the first round of the tourney.
^^^This. And he's had some pretty good coaching to go with what blonthang said.
".......... One day after Rick Barnes was fired as the Texas head coach, Turner gave up his remaining eligibility despite his desire to remain with the ‘Horns for his sophomore season.
“I wanted to stay. Austin, TX is like my favorite city in the US,” Turner said. ”I’ve obviously traveled everywhere just playing basketball and I love Austin. I didn’t want to leave the city, I didn’t want to leave my teammates — we were building something great. I didn’t even want to leave the classes, they were so interesting and intriguing, the incredible professors.”
Ultimately, his parents convinced him to leave his favorite city....."
MM looks like a Masters caddie.
If you like basketball analytics (and even if you dont), Turner is #2 among all players in the 2015 NBA draft in both WS (Win Shares) and VORP (Value over Replacement Player), and #3 in Total Rebounds and Rebounds Per Game. He was drafted #11 but has been the second best player in that draft behind only Karl-Anthony Towns. The other two from 2015 who, IMO, are worthy of consideration are Porzingis and Booker, but 3+ years in, Turner has been better than both.
Happens in all sports. Wille Parker played sparingly at North Carolina and then was a very production RB for the Steelers. Some guys are just late bloomers or need the right system, coach, girlfriend, who knows...