Santafe (the poster), mentioned this article in another thread, so thought I'd link it here. The Link
Here we go again folks, see "Add ND and BYU" in On The Field and this latest rumor: Mike DeCourcy: Big 12 Officials Have Met With Cincinnati: www.downthedrive.com/2014/12/8/7355657/mike-decourcey-big-12-officials-meeting-cincinnati-bearcats-expansion If the Big-12 someday does expand, here is the best reason why you DON'T add revenue losers like East Carolina (-$834,262), University of Central Florida (-$758,792), Houston (-$639,157), Memphis (-$155,029), Boise State (-$125,753), and Southern Methodist ($0). Figures show NET EARNINGS. BYU ($6,599,801) and Cincinnati ($2,375,429) are the best candidates. See: BYU Against the Field for Big 12 Expansion www.tornbysports.com/byu-field/
SantaFe, quick question. Would those numbers be the same if any of those teams were actually in the Big 12 instead of the a non-power 5 conference? Just wondering if there is a way to see how TCU numbers changed from coming from a small conference to the Big 12?
If we cannot add quality programs with a strong "football" history to the conference, why bother? We don't need to water down the conference any further. The answer was and may always be a Pac 16 IMHO.
I35, you might see improvement in football revenues for BYU, Memphis, and East Carolina, but all of the potential candidates, except BYU, have financial problems. Most of these universities have small enrollment and small stadiums, so significant stadium expansion is not likely in the near term. (We all know football funds athletic programs and drives TV revenues.) In this list, BYU is by far the best candidate, but even BYU has issues (e.g., no Sunday play). At least BYU would not present a financial problem to the Big-12. There are reports that TV contracts would favor the addition of BYU, but not the other candidates. Here are the stadium capacities: 1. BYU: 63,470 2. Memphis: 59,308 3. East Carolina: 50,000 4. UCF: 45,4401 5. Houston: 40,755 6. Cincinnati: 40,000 7. Colorado State: 34,400 8. Boise State: 33,500 9. Southern Methodist: 32,000 Also check out USA Today's Total Revenues/Total Expenses/Total Subsidy for 230 universities/colleges: Top School Revenue www.usatoday.com/sports/college/schools/finances/
I mentioned this on the AAS comments the other day...Cincy is tied for 9th in the country with USC for the best winning percentage since 2007. 75-28 (.728) over the last 8 seasons. OU and TCU are the only Big 12 teams with more wins over that span. They won or tied their conference 5 of 8 years (4 times Big East, once AAC). 7 bowl appearances in 8 years (2014 yet to be played) with 3 wins of those 6 played. 2 bowl wins over major conference teams, SEC and ACC. This was in response to a comment saying Cincy is a weak team that would only lower the Big 12's status. Clearly that's inaccurate in regards to their recent football accomplishments.
But does anyone Big 12-wide or nationwide really care about Cincy in football? They have never been relevant on the big stage. Other than BYU, there is a lot of grasping at straws here.
Adding BYU brings other headaches such as having to rework the entire Big 12 baseball schedule with then not playing Sunday games.
Would that be like 2009 when current Notre Dame head coach Brian Kelly led them to a 12-0 regular season, and 4th in the AP and Coaches Poll. They went 4-0 vs. top 25 teams and lost to Florida in the Sugar Bowl. In 2008 they played Virginia Tech in the Orange Bowl. That's not considered the national stage? Tell me again about the rich traditions of KU, ISU, and TTU on the national stage. Who cares what John Q. 'I read the Sunday morning sports page for the scores' knows of them by name. If one recognizes Louisville and Boise St., they should know Cincinnati. They were neck and neck with those guys all through the late 2000's. Yes, they've been very relevant in the recent past and yes they are known nationally in the college football world as a quality, winning program. Not to mention they bring one hell of a successful. storied basketball team with them. I'm not saying Cincy is a world-beater program but they have been on the big stage somewhat recent and do have merit. What has BYU done nationally the last 10 years in football that's so great? Besides beat our *** like we stole something. 5 Las Vegas bowls, New Mexico, Armed Forces, Poinsettia, and Fight Hunger Bowl. Where's their Sugar Bowl or Orange Bowl like Cincy's two the last 7 years? BYU hasn't had less than 2 losses and played in a respected bowl since the Cotton in 1996...18 years ago. If we take BYU and Cincy into the fold, some of the better programs would have a real fight on their hands to get by them most years. It wouldn't take long until both their names became more than just conversation for dedicated Big 12 football fans.
Perception is reality and, the perception of schools like Cincinnati, TCU, Baylor and others is not...impressive. Is that fair? No. Is it justified when measured against recent on-field results? Again, no. But it is the current reality. Can the perception change? Perhaps, over a period of many years. But it is a tall order. Look at Kansas State. By any measure KSU has been an excellent football program for many years now, particularly since Snyder has been at the helm. But do they have much national visibility.? Not so much. To raise the conference up, we need recognized and historically respected programs. In my judgment, none of the schools being discussed fit that description, with the exception of ND. Think about it. In the SEC, the marque names/programs are Alabama, LSU, Florida, Auburn, Tennessee... In the Pac 12 it's USC, Oregon, Stanford, UCLA... Even the suspect Big 10 has OSU, Michigan, Nebraska... I would argue that in the Big 12 there are only two programs that merit such a level of respect, Texas and OU. It is not in our best interests to water down the conference any further.
As far as expansion goes, the best interest of the conference is to add television sets. Which of these teams under discussion will actually add additional television footprint?
Baylor TCU SMU BYU Notre Dame WTF? Is there a Muslim or Jewish university that we should add?... just to be safe..
BYU is the best option of those in the latest rumor. Annual Profit of BYU Athletics (some examples): 2009: $5.5 million (+16%) 2012: $7.41 million (+20%) 2011-12 ANALYSIS OF THE VALUE OF COLLEGE FOOTBALL PROGRAMS: (Also note, the value of the Big-12 teams and the teams the Big-12 lost or failed to pursue (when the conference had the opportunity.) Texas (No. 1, $761.7 million); OU (No. 10, $454.7 million); Nebraska (No. 13, $360.1 million); Texas A&M (No. 18, $278.5 million); Texas Tech (No. 22, $211 million); Oklahoma State (No. 23, $209.1 million); Kansas State (No. 24, $207.1 million); Colorado (No. 25, $202.9 million); Clemson (No. 27, $201.8 million); Georgia Tech (No. 29, $188.4 million); Virginia Tech (No. 30, $171.5 million); West Virginia (No. 32, $159.4 million); Florida State (No. 33, $159 million); Miami (No. 34, $157.7 million); Iowa State (No. 41, $140.3 million); BYU (No. 43, $136.1 million); Kansas (No. 51, $103.4 million); TCU (No. 59, $76.6 million); Louisville (No. 60, $75.4 million); Baylor (No. 62, $71.3 million); Pittsburgh (No. 65, $56.4 million); Missouri (No. 67, $201.8 million); Cincinnati (No. 68, $48.9 million); NCAA AVERAGE HOME FOOTBALL ATTENDANCE BY YEAR University 2010 2011 2012 2013 BYU (Capacity: 63,470): 61,381; 60,265; 61,161; 61,225 Memphis: (Capacity: 59,308): 23,918; 20,078; 24,371; 28,537 East Carolina: (Capacity: 50,000): 49,665; 50,012; 47,013; 43,985 UCF: (Capacity: 45,4401): 39,614; 34,283; 34,608; 42,084 Houston: (Capacity: 40,755): 31,728; 31,731; 27,247; 24,256 Cincinnati: (Capacity: 40,000): 35,067; 32,293; 29,138; 31,771 CSU: (Capacity: 34,400): 22,400; 21,867; 19,250; 18,600 Boise State: (Capacity: 33,500): 33,269; 34,018; 35,404; 34,366 SMU: (Capacity: 32,000): 23,515; 20,894; 21,292; 18,725 So, you can see BYU is by far the best candidate for admission. Now, if we could get Notre Dame and BYU, I’d say expand to 12 because the TV money and additional exposure would be there. In May of 2014, the Big 12 announced a record $221 million in revenue last season, $23 million more than the previous season. With only 10 teams in the conference now, that meant more money for each school. Expanding to 12 would obviously cut revenues from $22.1 million to $18.4 per school. Plus, you risk making the Big-12 less attractive when the next television contract is negotiated. So, take these expansion rumors with a hefty degree of skepticism. I think the Big-12 will continue to hold at 10 members unless the conference starts losing big TV money (i.e., when compared to the other big-5 super conferences). Then, there’s the problem of who’s left to attract? BYU and Notre Dame, that’s it. Other options, like merge with the ACC or break up the Big-12 and have UT join another super conference (PAC-12 or Big-10) are radical guesswork. I see too many problems for those options.
If the Big 12 is to be punished / not helped for not having as champ game, we should simply request for a waiver to hold a game. How can other conferences say we can't have a champ game if at the same time it holds us back? And I think we shouldn't rush to change things ASAP - no way Texas or OU is excluded. TCU and Baylor suffered (unfairly) due to market size and reputation.
Cincy is building a new stadium, don't know how much it will hold. I think they've been playing at Bengals home field this year.
Figures show net profits. For those interested in knowing the average number of viewers per televised game see: Top College Football Teams by TV Ratings (Data from Sports Media Watch) www.goodbullhunting.com/2013/12/17/5216550/college-football-tv-ratings-2013-regular-season-final-sec NOTE: Ratings include only games on ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC, ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, and FOX Sports 1. Data for other networks are unavailable (e.g., Big Ten Network, Pac-12 Network, SEC Network, Longhorn Network, etc.)
We got all angles covered. Catholic Church offers Saturday evening mass, which fulfills your Sunday obligation. She knows people have lives and may have to work, travel, illness, etc. And She understands if you have to miss all together for legitimate reasons. You know, like if you got wasted the night before at the Bingo. Also, there are several mass services throughout the entire day on Sunday. Have no idea why Mormons have a problem with Sundays. Heck, I thought they didn't even believe Jesus was, you know, Jesus. Christians have mass/church services on that particular day because of Him. Sorry if I went borderline West Mall.
I saw one place that UCF and USF were stumping to get in the Big XII, add them and go after Florida State and Miami and Big XII would have a huge footprint in Florida! Far fetched I know but u can't catch big fish with small bait
Adding BYU would mean playing Saturday baseball doubleheaders. Of course rainouts would be a big problem. Yes, there are new reports lobbying for USF and UCF. www.voodoofive.com/2014/12/10/7357673/big-12-expansion-add-usf-and-ucf-first-bob-bowlsby-playoff Their biggest advantage is location. USF is in the 13th-largest TV market and UCF is in the 19th-largest. When combined, they are the nation's 4th-largest TV market and dominate the I-4 corridor. Florida ranks No. 4 in population. So, one can't argue no exposure to large TV markets and Florida recruiting.
