Regarding tackling--it has been mentioned several times in this thread and elsewhere that Texas is a poor tackling team. This is what I see when I watch the games as well. My question is, what is leading to the poor tackling--do the players not have the proper technique, are they out of position (e.g. secondary out of position in the zone, linemen and LBs not maintaining their gap responsibilities, etc.), are they taking proper pursuit angles, leading to arm tackles, etc. In other words, is fixing the tackling problem a "simple" matter of drilling in better techniques, or is the tackling problem a result of other issues?
Unfortunately, it looks like Mack has already made his decision and it Akina is it. Ed Orgeron's name came up recently in Bohl's column and he would have been an inspired choice, but of course Mack would prefer a former offensive coordinator to take the helm on D. Maybe Akina just held back his true genius to get Reese fired/retired and will now show us that he can actually coordinate the entire D, whereas he couldn't get the pass defense up to snuff by itself.
TF -- Considering the way things have been going, I'll take any small victories I can get. If we implement any kind of zone that enables our D to cover the underneath/crossing routes, I will feel like TPE on the front row at Wrestlemania XL. Let's hope it happens. Great post.
Thanks for the responses. Horn Dello-- unfortunally, the speed of the game changes when scrimmages are controled instead of all out. Players try to stay full speed but there is a natural pull up when your tackle attempt is cut short with a quick whistle. The only true way players know for sure that their technique was good and effective is to actually finish. Anticipating a whistle will keep players from breaking down and making solid contact. You play like you practice and running by or simply touching a ballcarrier down in practice isn't much help when opponents are dodging, cutting, and twisting during showtime. Tackling air is a by product of not coming under control and making solid contact which are skills you develop going full speed during practice. Eyes-- always glad to get your comments. You are probably right about dreaming of good things happening under present circumstances being too big a stretch but its hard for me as a fan to settle. I believe that any fan who invests the time and energy that we do as fans should have the right to hope for watching our players play the damn game the way it was meant to be played. Heisman--always good to read your takes. I watched a short segment on tv about Orgeron that was extremely impressive. He appears to be a very hands on coach and he is having fun doing his job. He relates well with his troops and damn sure isn't afraid of jumping in the trenches to demonstrate the technique needed for success. It would be hard to figure him as a yes man and I have a feeling his way of accomplishing teaching success is 180 degrees south of Mack's. Given only 15 minutes or so to judge him, I'd have to say he is probably my kind of people. Wooderson-- the beauty of a zone defense is that crossing receivers are always going to find defenders ahead and they aren't sure if the hit is going to come before they are able to see it. I know the feeling of frustration watching man coverage chasing crossing routes without any quick support due to everyone having their own assignment. Most zones allow the defenders to be facing the QB and everyone gets the opportunity to converge to the thrown ball. In man coverage you frequently see defenders having to turn their backs while running with their assignments and this not only keeps them from quick support but also spreads them out all over the field making it very difficult to surround the ball. CarKev-- yes, you are probably real close with your numbers and at one time or another every damn one of them probably hated me or at least what I asked out of them. The one thing you can bet your lunch money on and eat regular for a week is that they all learned that this game isn't easy. Hell, if it was then everyone would play it. I know I enjoyed every minute of it and from my conversations with them through the years, it certainly sounds like they they enjoyed their careers.
TF, I agree with you on DJ - when he has time to set his sights. I just got a little miffed at DD preferring to go too low, and when I see DJ do it..... I know he can do better. For hit/shed he seems to rely on his speed and pushing off instead of executing a good rip or setting his base with same side foot/shoulder delivering a hit neutralizing the block and turning their shoulders.... In your opinion, has the college game moved beyond the basics of shedding blocks by simply putting fast players out there with simple keys and one gap responsibility? Do you ever see our coaches working with LBs on this?
decleater-- DJ probably slips more blocks than he actually takes on. He is very crafty and has the ability to dip a shoulder, kinda like a underneath swim, and right himself into a good football position where he can stab a ballcarrier. It has been over three years, at least, since DJ has utilized a proper blow delievery on a blocker. Fundamentals just weren't stressed by his former LB coach. DJ will benefit from working with a true technican this next year if we bring in a "LB first" coach regardless of whether he is the DC or not. Little things like defeating the outside 1/2 of the blocker so that he can dictate either the RB cuts back inside to pursuit or runs right into DJ if he takes the outside part of the hole will help make DJ a complete player. DJ must eliminate diving at blocker's feet (sacrificing himself) and replace it with a team first quality decision that always puts him in one half of the hole with pursuit coming to the other half. In my opinion, the college game is still blocking and tackling. Teams can athletically spread them out, place sprinter speed at every position, and try to make it a track meet but somewhere along the line they are going to need to defeat a block and put that gray steel on the ball. There just aren't any shortcuts if you want success. Simple keys and one gap responsibilities still need a solid foundation of fundamentals in order to work, even with five star athletes at every position. If coaches depend on schemes that are devised to overload/outnumber one side of the offensive formation, they are essentially lining their team up beat. All the speed in the world won't outrun a poor plan. We have had visual proof of that for a few years-- funny you never see anybody else playing without a true backside end and weak LB (Will). I have watched several practices and spent the majority of time focusing on the LB's. Our former LB coach obviously felt structured drills, favorable teaching tips, and the players responsibility to work as a team was in direct conflict with his philosophy which was find the ball and run like hell to it. The majority of practice time was spent on simple key drills without contact, stunting against RB's, man coverage against RB's, and front stunts in what would be called a seven on six drill. Everything else was a team situation where contact was limited to defeating blocks with zero tackling allowed. If our LB's wanted individual instruction on how to play any technique, I never saw them ask any of the coaches nor did I see our LB coach offer any advice. Maybe DD and Marcus are getting more instruction at the next level--some may question whether talent was ever the problem.
TF, Very nice summation of great ideas for our new DC. Can't wait to see if some or all comes to pass.
Coach TF, join all those who admired your insight, your comprehension of/expertise in the technical side of the game, and ability to relay your thoughts with such clarity. No wonder your coaching career spanned some thirty years, and your influence upon so many players has been so positive. Like many others, agree with a majority of almost everything you have shared here. Would add this to what you said about Tom Nobis. Was fortunate enough to have him as a teammate back then and a friend now. Almost nothing I experienced in this game was quite as overwhelming as lining up against him during practice. In those years, we were all trained in 2 positions: one on offense and one on defense. His offensive position was RG, but the term then for guards was either strong/quick offensive guard. Although his legendary legacy was at LB, he sometimes played guard, especially when we were kicking the ball. As another teammate of mine said, "facemask and freckles" was all you saw and then sky or stars after a collision with Nobis. In "protecting the kick" drills, Tom eventually started grabbing people by the jersey. Fact was, there just was no one who could have creased the gap between guard and center with Nobis sealing to the inside. So, he on his own initiative, grabbed us to avoid pointless head butting--yeah, holding, but he saw no reason in possibly injurying another teammate. The coaches just watched, some smiling at the obvious fact that this fellow was in a league by himself and was quite prepared for games--but had reached a plausible conclusion on how to proceed in that aspect of practice. UT practice did go full speed, but not in the amount or frequency that some responders think we did then or want done now--and NEVER 1st team defense against 1st team offense in any practice situation. Not in the spring scrimmages, not in fall two-a-days. Sure, in drills a first teamer would come up against another starter, but not in scrimmage situations. Implied by some is that if you don't go full speed in practice against your equal, you won't know how to at real game time. I doubt seriously that anybody out there would accuse Coach Royal, Coach Campbell, Coach Shira, Coach Pittman or any of the rest of the staff of being too soft on the players or negligent in teaching proper techniques because of their realistic approach to managing the hitting intensity in practice or even bowl game preparations. Nor, hopefully, would anyone accuse the likes of Nobis, Talbert, Howe, or Appleton of faulty tackling technique because they weren't turned loose against starting teammates. Ask Joe Namath or Roger Staubach. Now against reserves like me who were expendable--that's a different story; I still remember the rib pain among others prior to the '63 game against Navy. My body knew "We were ready!" That was the job of the scout team; run the oppositions plays and incur the wrath. Have read that OU now advocates putting the best against the best in spring practice and even in the fall; maybe so, but maintain that Coach Royal knew what full speed from guys like Nobis, Culpepper, the Talbert's, Bedrick, Howe, and Appleton among others could do to the future of key players injury-wise. And too, we suited up only 47 on the traveling squad verses what is being done now. Injuries were a killer factor during my three varsity years. Had Jim Hudson among others been healthy for the '64 Arkansas game, I'm certain our winning streak would have continued, and we would have enjoyed back to back NC's. Most of you folks really know your stuff. Coach TF certainly knows his. Have tried to lend perhaps a little to the mix from past experiences--to suggest the answer may not lie in full speed ahead 1st team against 1st team--or some suggestions that tackling is an exact science rather than situational. Perfect form tackling when you know it can cause a loss or a fumble with support behind you is a different animal than when you are the last defender between you and the goal line. Grab, wrestle, hang on, whatever it takes, but just don't let him get away. And would suggest that the caliber of the coaches who teach the fundamentals and the attitude of the players that once you've been taught, you'd better sure as hell not forget, is the most cogent part of this discussion . Like TF said, our DC "faces some tough challenges." But full speed is not as black and white an answer on the field as it may appear in internet print.
I feel like a man dying of thirst in the desert who has just been tossed a chilled canteen. I can't tell you how much I enjoyed your thoughts, Texasfootball. I'll echo everyone else in asking you to please consider posting more frequently. dnddavis - those stories / history are great for us younger ones. It's mind-boggling the talent encompassed in the names you listed; without question some of the greatest ever at UT. Thanks to you as well.
Wow, I just read dnddavis' response. There's a handful of people here at Hornfans that know some football alright.
I'm bumping this back to the top. Anybody and everybody should read this thread. Post more Texasfootball. For the betterment of us all. Hook'em JMill
Thanks to all for a great read. I, for one, would love to see us put the "bump" back into our bump and run coverage. I don't think I've seen anyone in burnt orange do so effectively since Jammer left.
Thanks for the responses. dnddavis--What a wonderful read. I know times were different but as the old saying goes "the more things change the more they stay the same." I also played during that time and remember well that everybody had to learn a position on both sides of the ball. I still remember that they had rules where only two players could substitute when the ball changed hands. Now its not unusual to see a complete package of players change every down on both sides of the ball. Your description of the coaches (especially coach Campbell) work ethic couldn't be more true. Somehow I just can't picture any player that would forget an assignment, a technique, or making a mistake jogging back to the sidelines with a smile/grin on his face. A firing squad would be a better alternative than facing coach Campbell. Coaches were very demanding back then but they understood the game. They didn't insist that you fight the bull everyday but everyone knew the only way to keep improving was to pay the price both mentally and physically. The coaches paid so much attention to detail that players had to repeat a technique until they got it right or face being replaced on the spot, even changing different colored jersies which was the ultimate embarrassment. Your point about situational tackling is a well made point. Most coaches would agree that any tackle in the open field is a good tackle but as the last line of defense a player must get the job done and should never worry about how pretty it looks. I agree with you that the secret isn't pitting 1's against 1's. The secret is teaching sound fundamentals to everyone and depending on the individuals to applying those techniques against the 1's. The younger players lack repetitions and experience but will grow (as players) as they find that by staying with the sound fundamentals taught them will lead them to positive performances. Black Scholes-- good to hear from you. Those were great teams with great players because everything was team first and nobody was concerned about things like making the ESPN highlights. If somebody made a spectacular play it was doing his job first and if a homerun play happened it occured without a chance of it being a hero/******* decision by the player because there wouldn't be a second time. Capt. Hook'em-- I agree with you on the technique of the CB's. It is definitely puzzling why they didn't bump, jam, or reroute the WR's in straight man coverage. If you are going to load up on the pass rush it would seem that destroying the timing of a quick throw would be paramount. They gave themselves little chance of making the QB pull the ball back down and look somewhere else with the chase coverage.
TF, Let me just chime in with another "thank you for a real footbal post" DND, You simple never post enough.
Coach TF, appreciate your reply, and the manner in which you have validated all of us posters while extending our opinions at the same time. Frankly, made this old guy feel dadgum good. Also, that you agree to this day with Coach Royal's and Coach Campbell's opinion about pitting 1's vs. 1's in practice, brings up a request I'd like to make of you. Since I played thirty years ago and really don't have much to offer about 1's vs. 1's except it NEVER happened at Texas during my years (63-66)--and since you coached some 30 years from that point on and faced this dilemma professionally both daily and from year to year--was hoping that you'd consider taking this much discussed topic before this board now and help us look further into the rationale for and against. Just today, read another reference to the ongoing debate between what is gained by players going against comparable skill-level-players and the risk factor of increasing the chance of injury. Know this is asking a bunch of you and your time, but to my knowledge, there is no one I trust more than you to coach us through this debate. Know I'd be benefitted and believe others would as well; thanks for this thread and looking forward to another if the same need for discussion strikes the same viable chord with you as it is striking with me.
TF- Or Coach - You sound like my old school coach in Alabama (Folsom High). Coach Klemmer used to tell us over and over-every year without fail. " EVERYBODY WILL KNOW HOW TO TACKLE AND EVVERYBODY WILL TACKLE" Even the QBs learned how to do that in case of INT's. But for sure the thing I remember most was his insistence that even special teams people tackle AS HARD as the defense. "You boys on ST's are my second line of defense" he would say. " Play hard and smart and you WILL get respect"
Thanks for the responses. dnddavis-- concerning teams using 1's against 1's I believe there is another factor beside injuries that influence head coaches into deciding to use second units or scout teamers against 1's. That factor would be the confidence card and when pitting 1's vs. 1's you will always have a winner and a loser. You don't need one side of the ball losing faith in the other side. 1's against 1's will always put pride on the line and individuals will put maximum effort into every battle (bragging rights) and this can lead into the nasty attitude that they will do whatever is necessary to get the job done. The pride element can put more risky techniques (efforts) into the equation which has a better chance to cause injuries. This doesn't include the fact that 1's vs. 1's almost always means the bigger faster nasty attituded people will be running full speed into each other and that can cause collisons that might test the bodies resistance. Every teams 1's need a good picture (not necessarily equal talents) from their opposition in practice. If any showteamer (kodiac bunch--give us a good picture) doesn't react the same way that your next opponent's players will, then you are presenting a distorted view for your team and they won't be prepared for what they see at showtime. This is where teaching your younger kids (the ones that aren't quite ready yet) sound fundamentals will pay off in two distinct ways--they will give a solid picture of the opponents to the varsity and they will be developing technique skills that will make them better players as they gain the experience needed to compete the following year. If coaching staffs aren't stressing fundamentals (including the how's, when's, and why's) during drills then they are cheating the varsity of the picture they need and cheating the youngsters out of the development of correct skills they need for their educational progress. navblue-- blocking and tackling is a basic in football 101. In order to receive a complete education everyone should know the correct techniques of the two basics to prevent injuries to themselves because every time you step between the white lines you might have to perform one or the other. The need for certain positions to practice these two skills every single practice is obviously uncalled for but the knowledge of how to perform should be taught and refreshed from time to time. Every player has the same scholarship and needs to be ready to do anything in order to help his team win. Tom Terrific-- this board used to be full of good quality football posts/posters. There was a time when excellent posters started discussions where everyone participated without regard to who knew the most, creditability wasn't questioned or limited as to whether you were a coach or not, and the number of posts that you had wasn't important one way or the other. Posters with lesser knowledge could ask simple questions and they would receive respectful answers. Most posters tried to back their opinions with solid takes/examples and discussions were educational. There were definite disagreements (some quite heated) but at the end of the day everyone cooled down and we all took the good with us. Those were definitely the good old days.
Coach TF, wanted to say thanks for your time and analysis of 1's vs 1's. Your points about what can happen when starters go against starters and that pride factor gets going, and how serious the collisions can become when best goes against best seems obvious now, once it's been said. Really appreciate your emphasis that the desired results can happen with second teamers or even the scout team vs. the 1's if coaches are astute enough to stress the "how, when, and why" of fundamentals when the optimum moment to teach arrives. Reminded me of a certain incident with Loyd Wainscott. I use this only to point out that coaches who have the instinct to use the pride factor can get desired results even with a reserve against a first teamer, even an AA first teamer. We were in a goalline drill. Wainscott was coming in way too high on offense, and not using any leverage. In spite of my lack of athleticism compared to someone like him, I was beating him to he ground and getting lower, quicker. Finally, Coach Campbell had had enough. He comes up and spits and then asks Loyd, "How come he's so little and you're so big and he's whipping you?" Pride factor you mentioned plays out big time. And don't have to tell you that I was reduced shortly to the little guy I was by this awesome talent. But before that reduction, the lack of proper technique by a first teamer was indeed plugging up the hole, altering the angle of approach the RB would have to make, or forcing the RB to hurdle to get to the goalline. Have enjoyed this discussion more than words can say. And am hoping for more dialogues like this to occur with more frequency in the future--as you said they once did in this forum a while back. The pride factor in posters can cause injury as well, and can plug up the lanes to getting to the goalline. We posters need a coach like you, TF, to come in, spit, and get us understanding better the fundamentals of "how, when, and why".
