Not even Spicer will defend this claim....

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by NJlonghorn, Jan 24, 2017.

  1. NJlonghorn

    NJlonghorn 1,000+ Posts

    When asked this afternoon about Trump's claim that millions of illegal votes were cast for Hillary Clinton, Spicer said that yes, that is something Trump believes, and has believed for a long time. But Spicer made only a tepid, almost sheepish attempt to defend the claim. When asked whether he personally agrees with Trump, Spicer declined to comment. Fox News Link NYT Link

    I can't believe I'm saying this, but I felt sorry for Spicer while watching this conference.

    • Funny Funny x 2
  2. Garmel

    Garmel 2,500+ Posts

    • Funny Funny x 1
  3. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    Yep, who cares what the truth is? Obama sucks, and the media is partisan, so it doesn't matter what our guy says.
    • Like Like x 1
  4. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 2,500+ Posts

    Facts are a many-splendored thing. For instance, NJ asserted there were under 1000 incorrect votes in Detroit based on his interpretation of the facts, but his facts were wrong. The thing is, until an auditor checks every vote, there is no way to know what the facts are concerning fraudulent votes. Any claim to the contrary, and any rebuttal of those claims, is speculation.
  5. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    You sticking with this claim too?

    Last edited: Jan 25, 2017
  6. Clean

    Clean 5,000+ Posts

    Strengthen up voting procedures! Holy Racism Batman! Dead people have rights too you know.
  7. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Democrats in these states will fight every attempt to clean up the voter rolls, as they always have. Whether its the dead or the non-citizens or the multiple voters.

    If they asked me, I would say, let us start with California and Illinois. But there will be tremendous resistance in those two states. The power of the Dems there is like they had in the Jim Crow South. Keeping the names of the dead on the rolls will be considered a victory against Trump for these people. This is how they think.

    Will Voting Equality! be the Civil Rights cry for the rest of this decade?
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2017
  8. ProdigalHorn

    ProdigalHorn 10,000+ Posts

    As long as the Dems are involved in the process, this should be a no-brainer for them. They do the investigation, turns out there's no issue with voter fraud after all, and the talking point goes away. In fact, they can have one more thing to yell about, how we wasted time and energy chasing a boogeyman that "everyone knew didn't exist to begin with." Hey, win-win!!

    Of course, that would mean actually updating the voting roles that no one seems to dispute are inaccurate...
  9. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Check out the WAPO from 2 years ago -- "Could non-citizens decide the November election?"

    "In a forthcoming article in the journal Electoral Studies, we bring real data from big social science survey datasets to bear on the question of whether, to what extent, and for whom non-citizens vote in U.S. elections. Most non-citizens do not register, let alone vote. But enough do that their participation can change the outcome of close races. …

    How many non-citizens participate in U.S. elections? More than 14 percent of non-citizens in both the 2008 and 2010 samples indicated that they were registered to vote. Furthermore, some of these non-citizens voted. Our best guess, based upon extrapolations from the portion of the sample with a verified vote, is that 6.4 percent of non-citizens voted in 2008 and 2.2 percent of non-citizens voted in 2010.

    Because non-citizens tended to favor Democrats (Obama won more than 80 percent of the votes of non-citizens in the 2008 CCES sample), we find that this participation was large enough to plausibly account for Democratic victories in a few close elections."
  10. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Life comes at you fast ....
    For Ana, it was only 24 hours


  11. I35

    I35 5,000+ Posts

    There has been exposed voter fraud. No one can question that if it happens or not. I don't know if it's in the millions or not, but with what has been exposed I'm guessing that's just a small tip of a very big ice berg.
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  12. Horn2RunAgain

    Horn2RunAgain 500+ Posts

    Don't know why Dems are scared of the idea. Seems like half of the links I've read over the years on the subject actually would have benefited the Pubs in terms of votes
  13. Horn6721

    Horn6721 Half of seeming clever is keeping your mouth shut.

    I doubt that there are many dead Republicans or Pubs faking ID to vote.
  14. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Some of you will not like these conclusions (full study included)

    "Do Non Citizens Vote in US Elections?"
    --- Richman Research Study

    "........ Non-citizen votes likely gave Senate Democrats the pivotal 60th vote needed to overcome filibusters in order to pass health care reform and other Obama administration priorities in the 111th Congress."


  15. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    Al Franken is a Senator due to voter fraud, at least some say.

    A friend of mine was called by Franken's team when he was campaigning trying to get him to vote for Al. Problem was my friend is not a Minnesota resident. The guy didn't seem to care about that fact.
  16. Garmel

    Garmel 2,500+ Posts

    Does it really matter? It doesn't look good for Trump in this case but if it turns out Trump was right, the left (and particularly the OP) will spin it anyway.
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2017
  17. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    Yes. Truth matters. Not engaging in wild speculation when you're President of the United States matters.

    The Left will spin it. If it's supported by evidence, NJ won't.
    • Like Like x 2
  18. I35

    I35 5,000+ Posts

    Not to the MSM.
  19. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    On a case-by-case basis.
  20. texas_ex2000

    texas_ex2000 2,500+ Posts

    Honestly, who really would take the over that there isn't a material voter fraud problem?

    I doubt Trump lost the popular vote (again which is irrelevant) because of voter fraud, but a comprehensive investigation of election history at local/state/a national careful what you wish for Democrats. Wikileaks just lifted the skirt on the DNC on their media manipulation (which conveniently the media has glossed over in favor of Russian stories) - voter fraud? I think the left's reaction would be something like this:

    That is not a crazy hypothesis.
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2017
  21. Garmel

    Garmel 2,500+ Posts

  22. NJlonghorn

    NJlonghorn 1,000+ Posts

    If Trump had said something like that, I'd be behind him. I support investigating voter fraud to determine the extent of the problem and to develop ways to curtail it. What I don't support is knee-jerk conclusions about whether fraud exists and "solutions" that may cause more problems than they solve.

    For example, suppose David Smith dies. His son, David Smith, inherits the house and moves in (or lived there all along). A superficial study would match the name and address on the voter ID card with the name and address on a death certificate, proclaim a fraud, and strike the younger Mr. Smith from the voter rolls. He might be able to get the problem fixed eventually, but meanwhile he's denied his right to vote.

    When states have been aggressive about "cleaning up voter registration rolls", they have generally done so without safeguards to ensure that legitimate voters are not purged. If appropriate safeguards are put in place, there will still be whiners (there always are) but most people would be on board.
    • Like Like x 3
  23. NJlonghorn

    NJlonghorn 1,000+ Posts

    I'm prepared to accept this conclusion by the research article @Joe Fan posted:

    [T]he number of non-citizen voters [in the 2008 Congressional elections]. . . could range from just over 38,000 at the very minimum to nearly 2.8 million at the maximum.

    • Like Like x 1
  24. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    As a political moderate, I find the press conferences unwatchable. The grandstanding "gotchas"drive me crazy. If I were in Spicer's shoes, where his job is defending the boss who doesn't play by the political pro rules, I'd lose my cool and start screaming at folks. There's gotta be a better way to convey information to the masses.
    • Like Like x 2
  25. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    That study has been weeeeellll criticized by multiple sources. I don't have the energy to look it up again.
  26. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    Trump transparently has a big ego. Though the question of who won the "popular vote" is one of those things where I'm feeling "At this point, what difference does it make?" to Trump, a man who can't stand to be one down, it's a problem. Who among us, (I'd like a show of hands), expects Trump to be careful and serious researcher of facts, when someone gets underneath his skin? He's no better (or worse) than my ideologically conservative Facebook fans. Media figures talking incessantly about behaviors that the electorate has no doubt heard about -- and responded with a resounding "meh" -- could use their (and our) time more productively.
    • Like Like x 2
  27. Brad Austin

    Brad Austin 2,500+ Posts

    It's funny how some still haven't realized DT makes over-the-top, basic language boasts like a teenage girl on purpose. Just like reality TV the public eats it up.

    Kinda like if tonight he said..."I caused the highest close of the Dow Jones ever"...oh wait, that one really just happened. :smile1:
    • Like Like x 1
  28. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    There's a reason why we don't make a teenage girl the President of the United States.
    • Like Like x 5
  29. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    Give me an example in which is has ignored evidence. Just FYI - political argument is not evidence. Speculation is not evidence.
  30. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    Either "the rules" have changed or DT is not subject to the rules. The Constitution has an age requirement for President, but not a maturity one. Hey, maybe in 20020 we can choose between nominees from Duck Dynasty and Keeping up with the Kardashians.

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