Obama's parting gifts to the American people

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by Joe Fan, Nov 18, 2016.

  1. mchammer

    mchammer 5,000+ Posts

    Americans like choice. I don’t see how you can square that with gov run healthcare.
  2. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    Because what they really want is everything - choice, cheap cost, and high quality. The market will deliver high quality and choice and for most it'll deliver cheap costs. However, if you're old, poor, or have some other condition that makes you high risk, it won't be cheap and very likely won't be cheap enough for you to afford it. That's why healthcare became a political issue. If it was truly just a matter of choice preference, then Medicare and Medicaid would be politically easy programs to repeal or at least reform.
  3. theiioftx

    theiioftx 2,500+ Posts

    The problem is that it is a corrupt market. Simply requiring transparency in pricing would solve most of the problems. Simply make hospitals/doctors post a menu for example that says this:

    knee surgery:
    Surgeon - $1,100
    Operating room (support staff) $1,000
    Anesthesia - $800
    Pharmacy - $200

    Note: actual dollars do not matter. Hospital A will feel pressure to lower price if Hospital B is lower.

    Next, require all commercial insurance to be transparent in what they pay for as well.

    Note: as a clinical provider, you get paid differently by state and differently by procedure simply due to required documentation. Plus your competitor gets paid differently than you confidentially.

    For Medicare/Medicaid, require each to pay at least cost plus 10%. No provider should lose money providing required care. Providers should be paid within 30 days of service.

    Finally, every patient should pay something for service. When it is absolutely “free” to go to the hospital or doctor, there is no reason not to misuse the system.
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  4. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    Government run healthcare won't give you everything. Anybody who thinks it can is a fool.

    The 3 wants are low cost, high quality, and availability. Reality allows for 2. That's it. Pick which 2 are most important to you. The trick is having a market to allow different programs where the different permutations exist.
  5. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    If you ever wondered were all that "shovel-ready" stimulus money went

  6. Horn6721

    Horn6721 Half of seeming clever is keeping your mouth shut.

    Obama has a strange interpretation of his own remarks;" I mean, I do think at a certain point you’ve made enough money. "
  7. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    Horn6721. Obama was clear "I" think "you" made enough money. He just doesn't want other people to get too rich.
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  8. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Obama did not care much for fracking either

  9. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Another one of Obama's "green energy" boondoggles has gone belly up
    This was a $1 BILLION project
    What do you want to bet me Harry Reid got some type of kickback in some form?

    People make fun of Rick Perry all the time and there is no doubt he deserves it, but even he was better at this stuff than Obama's guy who did not think twice about wasting taxpayer money

    The Obama Admin will go down as one of the worst ever. They screwed up everything they touched, from foreign affairs (Iran,Syria,Libya), to healthcare, to trade deals, to weaponizing the govt against its own people, to his weak attempt to close Gitmo, spying on political opponents, to the energy sector.

    The Crescent Dunes solar plant looks like something out of a sci-fi movie. Ten thousand mirrors form a spiral almost 2 miles wide that winds around a skyscraper rising above the desert between Las Vegas and Reno. The operation soaks up enough heat from the sun’s rays to spin steam turbines and store energy in the form of molten salt.

    In 2011 the $1 billion project was to be the biggest solar plant of its kind, and it looked like the future of renewable power. Citigroup Inc. and other financiers invested $140 million with its developer, SolarReserve Inc. Steven Chu, the U.S. Department of Energy secretary at the time, offered the company government loan guarantees, and Harry Reid, then the Senate majority leader and senior senator from Nevada, cleared the way for the company to build on public land. At a Washington celebration of SolarReserve’s public funding, Chief Executive Officer Kevin Smith told the assembled politicians, “We’re proud to be doing our part to win the future.”

    SolarReserve may have done its part, but today the company doesn’t rank among the winners. Instead, it’s mired in litigation and accusations of mismanagement at Crescent Dunes, where taxpayers remain on the hook for $737 million in loan guarantees.....

    A $1 Billion Solar Plant Was Obsolete Before It Ever Went Online
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    Last edited: Jan 6, 2020
  10. Horn6721

    Horn6721 Half of seeming clever is keeping your mouth shut.

    Was this a shovel ready project? Did any of Obama's graft projects actually successful for anyone but his cronies?
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  11. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Do it
    (and do it before you show up as a suicide victim)

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  12. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Re: above^

    Regarding Obama's pallets of Billions in cash that flew to Europe then Iran on US military jets. There are allegations that some of it may have left Iran via Ukraine airline jets and made it back into the pockets of Pro-Iran deal politicians

    Follow the money
  13. theiioftx

    theiioftx 2,500+ Posts

    Nah, that pallet of cash was driven to First Bank of Tehran and deposited in the night drop for the government coffers. It was then dispensed to municipalities for roads, healthcare and infrastructure.

    Or it was flat stolen and given to terrorists.
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  14. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Made me laugh

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  15. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Obama's red lines were so fraudulent
    We should impeach over this

  16. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Democrats during the impeachment:

    “We fight Russia over there so we don’t have to fight them over here!!!”

    Democrats during Obama:
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  17. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    And yet another one of Obama's solar ponzi schemes has flamed out. This one turned into the largest Ponzi scheme in Eastern California history. This whole enterpise originated during the Obama Administration and benefited from government subsidies in the process

    “This billion dollar Ponzi scheme hurt investors and took money from the United States Treasury. This case represents not only the largest criminal fraud scheme in the history of the District, it also represents the largest criminal forfeiture in the history of the District with over $120 million in assets forfeited. All of this money will be returned to the victims. This scheme also targeted the United States Treasury, and we have returned $500 million to the Treasury to date. Agents, investigators and attorneys from various federal agencies are still working to continue to return money to victims and the United States Treasury. Today’s guilty pleas sends a strong message that fraudsters will get caught and will pay for their crimes. You can run, but you cannot hide.”

    Top Executives Plead Guilty to Participating in a Billion Dollar Ponzi Scheme—the Biggest Criminal Fraud Scheme in the History of the Eastern District of California
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  18. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    Everybody forgets about this ****, and it's what made HRC's whinniness about racism in 2016 ring so hollow. She ran the most racist presidential campaign in 2008 of any candidate from either party in at least 40 years. Maybe George Wallace had her beat by a little but not much.

    I would bet my left nut that Obama voted for Trump.
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  19. old65horn

    old65horn 1,000+ Posts

    Key words here are "I think".

    The statement was almost entirely false. They was one incident where a Clinton staffer made a racist statement about Obama and Clinton called Obama and apologized.

    Compare that to the current pres that started his campaign with racism as the core principle and never eased up. Ever heard the current pres apologize about anything. Never head another pres candidate call a competitor's wife butt ugly, his Dad an assassin before either and have that candidate become the guys puddle. Cruz makes Texans proud they way he stood up fore his wife. Oh wait, that is the same way he stands up for his constitutes.
  20. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    To be clear, Trump was the bigger *******. There's no question about that. That's his whole schtick. He has literally been a professional ******* for years - ever since he became a celebrity for something other than just his real estate business.

    Hillary just ran a more overtly racist campaign. And it wasn't just her staff. There was Sidney Blumenthal, who was a birther before Trump made birtherism cool. There was the "hardworking white Americans" comment, etc. The same people that she **** on in 2016 by calling them "deplorable" were getting actively courted by her with an explicit reference to their race. That's Steve King-level stuff. She didn't have to answer for that, because the political media licks your party's nutsack every two minutes, but it still happened.
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  21. old65horn

    old65horn 1,000+ Posts

    Opinion, or do you have a source?
    Sorry, that has not be proven true.
    Did Sid Blumenthal really push birtherism?
    That has nothing to do with race. I did not say that HRC ran a good campaign. In my opinion, the reason we have trump is due to 1. Comey 2. Bernie 3. Russian 4. HRC campaign

    We have never had a more Raciest pres than trump, my opinion.
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  22. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada Liquor Man

    Given how well minorities are doing in this economy, I'd say Trump really sucks at being a racist, if he is one at all.
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  23. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Did you know it was Team Clinton that started the whole 'birtherism' movement?
    I believe it was axe-murderer Sidney Blumenthal who came up with that first.
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  24. Horn6721

    Horn6721 Half of seeming clever is keeping your mouth shut.

    It was Clinton. IIRC there was a Penn. Lawyer who brought a lawsuit saying Obama was not eligible to be POTUS . He wss a Clinton supporter. There was also someone nere in Texas who workrd for or volunteered for HC who fanned the flames.
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  25. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    Hillary is pro-rape AND a racist? Dang. Glad that scuzz will never become President.
  26. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

  27. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    It's an opinion, but it's an opinion based on facts. I'm not just pulling it out of my ***.

    It's fluff piece for Hillary Clinton less than two months before the election to cast doubt on the Blumenthal-birther connection, because she was trying to tie birtherism exclusively to Trump. As you tacitly acknowledge it only says the Blumenthal angle hasn't been proven. Basically, it's a swearing match between James Asher with McClatchy and Sid Blumenthal. Blumenthal denies pitching birtherism. Well, no ****. Excuse me for being more inclined to believe the journalist over the career Clinton hack less than two weeks before an election.

    "Hardworking white Americans" has nothing to do with race? OK, dude. That had nothing to do with race like "Jews will not replace us" had nothing to do with race.

    You have Trump, because for the last few decades, you've telling a very large demographic of people in electorally important states to go screw themselves, and Hillary put an exclamation point on that. If you hadn't done that, Trump would have lost. He was the easiest Republican nominee to beat in a century. People in Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin didn't give two squirts of piss about Comey or the Russians. Maybe a little bit about Bernie, but that was part of the broader problem. He had a different approach to those voters than she did.

    The "basket of deplorables" comment hurt more than any of those things you mentioned. I would agree that her campaign sucked, but that dumbass comment was part of her campaign, and I'm sure it helped her run up the score in San Francisco, New York City, Seattle, and Washington, D.C.

    But all of our nominees were racists right? Romney, McCain, Bush, Dole, Bush, Sr., Reagan, Nixon. They were all racists. You'd say otherwise when it didn't matter, but near election time, they were all closet David Dukes - another reason you got Trump.
  28. Horn6721

    Horn6721 Half of seeming clever is keeping your mouth shut.

    Phillp Berg, a Pa lawyer who was a loyal Dem of long standing brought a suit against Obama's eligibility in 2008. He had been questioning the eligibility for awhile. The suit was dismissed but the attention spread and others started asking more questions.
  29. WorsterMan

    WorsterMan 10,000+ Posts

    Do you know / recall some of the questions?
  30. Horn6721

    Horn6721 Half of seeming clever is keeping your mouth shut.

    Berg was a kook although he was chairman of the Dem party in his county. The point is there were many dems who questioned Obama's eligibility.
    Berg got national attention because he brought the lawsuit and even tried to get the Supremes involved.

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