Ok, that's enough, I'm buying a hybrid.

I don't even know when I'm buying my next car, but I am damn certain it's going to be a hybrid or some comparable technology. Anyone else?

These gas prices are insane. I actually wrote an econ thesis about Hybrids about 3 years ago, and Americans are relatively gas-inelastic; it's not like we're fighting with the market. But, just doing some math in my head, at $4/gallon, if you drive 10K a year at 20mpg, the jump to 40mpg would save you like $1000/year at $4/gallon. Driving a Prius basically saves you $1500 year. That's some real scratch - an easy $10K if you drive your car 100K miles.



Besides, I like to be part of the solution.

 

Hybrids don't really make a lot of sense. They're a bandaid "solution" with limited financial return (if any). Most of them don't get significantly better mileage than a well-designed internal combustion engine, and you not only pay a premium for that better mileage, but you run the risk of having to pay for new batteries out of warranty.

Throw in the environmental issues related to the disposal of batteries, and I'd just rather buy a vehicle with better mileage. GM has a product that turns the car off at a stop, and it works well enough that city and highway mileage are essentially equal. Other vehicles disable cylnders when the power demand is low. These ideas make sense to me.

I'd like to learn more about the all-electrics which are hitting the street lately. Anybody know much about the economic return, or their "carbon footprint"?

If I could figure out a way to get to work exclusively on residential streets, I'd buy a motorcycle.

 

$83/month, which is what that works out to, isn't enough to make me go out and buy a hybrid. Nothing against a hybrid, I'm just not jumping up and down to do so yet. I do see your point, though. I wouldn't make a special trip to the bank do deposit an $83 check.

 

Yeah, get a Corolla and also reduce your driving.

Hybrids stroke one's ecological ego a lot more, though.

 

Yeah, I looked at the Escape hybrid versus the high end (leather, chrome, etc) Escape that I bought and the gas savings didn't come close to covering the additional upfront costs. Add to that the basic fact that an infant technology is a lot more likely to have problems than a mature technology, no thanks.

 

I've considered a hybrid for my next car and, while admittedly the economics don't work out yet at $3.50 a gallon, the thing I worry about is an international event that spikes gas even higher. We're only one invasion of Iran, popular uprising in Saudi Arabia, one assasination in Jordan, etc away from $6 - $10 per gallon gas, and then those hybrid savings become more and more significant.

 

Didn't some Brazilian oil company just strike gold? I don't know if the new find is enough to affect our dependence on middle eastern oil, but it can't hurt.

Or did I dream that?

 

I think in 3-4 years, hybrids will prove to be the bandaid they are. If it takes 10+ years to recoupe the cost (which is darn near impossible given how long we hold cars), then I'll wait for the follow up technology. There is just too much in the pipeline for hybrids to establish themselves as the answer. Demand for hybrids when it doesn't make economic sense however, is one of the driving forces for car companies to find soultions that do make economic sense. I mean, if people are buying hybrids now, just imagine how many will buy new technology when it make sense?

 

The new diesel jettas are supposed to get between 45-50 mpg.

 

Last August I got fed up and traded in my '04 Acura TL for a Honda Fit. I love it. Certainly a much different car, but I realized all I did was drive back and forth to work. Almost always drove the wife's minivan on the weekends.

On top of throwing away $$ on the TL, which was a very nice car, I was getting poor gas mileage. I averaged 18 mpg. Driving the same distance/etc, I have averaged 32.72 mpg since trading in August.

I just went with the MIL to get a Prius. It is nicer than a Civic or Corolla. I also think that for the most part the average mileage would be closer to 17,000 than 10,000.

 

I should clarify my earlier post a bit. I realize buying a hybrid isn't an obvious decision from a financial standpoint. However, it's no longer a terrible decision.

 

hybrid math doesnt work at todays fuel prices and car prices unless you drive a LOT of miles per year.

anybody bother to run the math on what gas price level = a 5 year payback say? thats probably the most useful number to know.

 

For me its in the $21 per gallon range.

But I bought a commuter car years ago that gets 27 miles per gallon on average and the total expenses (Initial costs (paid cash so no interest), repairs, licensing, oil, gas, insurance) averaged over my period of ownership comes to ~$180 a month. That assumes gas at $3.50 accounting for about $70 of the total.

 

using JimmyJazz's numbers above, the 5 year total cost of a Prius = the 5 year total cost of a Corolla at $12 gas. for a civic its $9 gas.

Gas Price Prius Corolla Civic

$3.00 24,512 19,413 19,915
$4.00 25,573 21,075 21,675
$5.00 26,635 22,736 23,436
$6.00 27,696 24,397 25,196
$7.00 28,758 26,058 26,957
$8.00 29,820 27,719 28,718
$9.00 30,881 29,380 30,478
$10.00 31,943 31,041 32,239
$11.00 33,004 32,702 33,999
$12.00 34,066 34,364 35,760

sorry for the ****** formatting.

 

I have been thinking about purchasing a Prius; I read somewhere that the '09 model should have better fuel economy. I'm waiting to see if that's true.

 

Don't you also get a 3k tax deduction or something if you buy a Hybrid? I'm not sure if that's still going on, but could help take some of the edge of.

 

im pretty sure that game is over. i think in 2006.

 

A hybrid typically derives its cruising power from the internal combustion engine, and only uses the electric power for starting and stopping. City driving emphasizes the latter. The mileage ratings can invert, as is the case with the Prius.

 

hybrids get better city mileage because they can run off battery only at a low speed.

for all the prius/corolla comparisons: 1) a prius is a much cooler car and 2) who drives a car for 5 years?

 

I nice westmall topic is why they got rid of the tax credits.

 

Gas is currently $3.50 a gallon. I think it's a safe bet the price will at least stay the same over the next ten years, and probably increase.

The yearly fuel costs driving 10,000 miles a year at $3.50 gas are:
45 MPG: 777.77
40 MPG: 875
28 MPG: 1250
24 MPG: 1458.33

At $3.80 gas:
45 MPG: 844.44
40 MPG: 950
28 MPG: 1357.14
24 MPG: 1583.33

At $4.10 gas:
45 MPG: 911.11
40 MPG: 1025
28 MPG: 1464.29
24 MPG: 1708.33

 

Genco, same numbers i came up with.

Bottom line is Gas is still pretty cheap and was absurdly cheap 5 years ago.

 

The Brazilian fields are deep under the ocean with lots of metal melting pressure and a mile of salt sea bed between the ocean and the oil. Prices have to remain steady and technology has to get better in order to make the full drilling of this unproven field feasible.

Softly,

The new TSX will continue to have a relatively anemic engine with poor gas mileage for its class. You would do better to look at something in the entry level luxury class that has a turbo or new fuel efficient diesel. Think Audi, Mercedes, etc.
However, you'll do well with reliability and depreciation in the TSX. It's just that you'll fill up as much as a TL and get passed by Civics while driving.