Ok, that's enough, I'm buying a hybrid.

The rolley eyes is for your your totally absurd statement that hybrid buyers are environmentally irresponsible.

Have you checked EPA ratings for hybrid emissions? They are stellar. And if you think driving a gas-guzzler 100K miles is outweighed by battery disposal costs to the environment, I just think you're completely wrong.

As for the used car/new car point, I don't think that's part of the debate. Why would I be more likely to buy a new hybrid that a new car? I'm comparing technologies, not specific buying situations.

 

ReyDog, you may be thinking of the urban legend "A Hummer is better for the environment over its lifetime than a Prius." It's false. According to Wikipedia, studies by MIT, Argonne National Laboratory, Carnegie Mellon, and the Union of Concerned Scientists say a Prius is better than a Hummer (pretty obvious I think).

What would make a Prius worse for the environment than a normal car? The extra large battery? Toyota has a recycling program for those, and the low emissions might outweigh that anyways.

 

Comparing a Hummer to a Prius is a farce, and really is silly to even bring up. This thread is about people talking about the advantages/disadvantages of similarly sized, or even smaller economical gas cars. Leave that 'gas-guzzler' crap out of it.
Also, I could be wrong, but don't all cars have to meet the same emissions standards? I am not sure about the larger trucks, but I thought that all cars had to pass emissions tests that are the same? Am I wrong on that point?

 

if you want lowest total cost of ownership it is going to be really hard to beat a smart car.

I have posted this a couple times on other threads-- I am buying one (its on order, waiting patiently for delivery) and my AGGREGATE automobile expense will decrease after i buy it and I AM NOT SELLING MY OTHER CAR!

I drive 8k miles per year, but my other car gets bad mileage. the only way it works is the very low cost of the car combined with a huge mileage uplift from one to the other. I'll split miles ~50/50.

 

I drove my Prius from Austin to Dallas and back this week. It took 10 gallons, round trip. My milage is 48.2 city and highway combined.

When I bought it my old car was 10 years old. I needed a new car, I prefer driving a smaller car, the Prius had all the features I need...I could have paid for more features, but wouldn't use them. FWIW the economic factor was smaller than my desire to "vote" with my dollars. I want the manufacturers to produce more energy efficient cars, and hope that more customers buying energy efficient cars vs. less will have some influence on the manufacturers.

As far as the "bandaid" aspect, I think the hybrid will be the best we can do until something better comes along. By that time I will need a new car and can, at that time, get the better product. I don't see the point in waiting for the absolute solution and not taking advantage of current technology. By that thinking I would never buy a computer because something better will be coming along.

As far as EMF's are concerned, I can just wear my tin foil diapers.

 

I looked into those Smart cars -- very interesting. Two seats, tiny motor, cheap. Makes sense.

 

That's a good comparison. I thought about doing it for the Lexus hybrids.

And to beat my point into the ground just a little bit more, I think there is a fairly large percentage of the car-buying public for whom "standard" options make no sense. They want the lowest cost of ownership possible while still buying a warranteed new car. I mean, just look at the number of Kias and whatnot on the road. It's just the way it is. So no, I don't think it's invalid to compare the Prius to a Corolla, FOR SOME BUYERS, because there are plenty of buyers out there who don't want the extras and would rather not pay for them.

 

Just curious -- how much is the Fit, and what kind of mileage does it get?

 

I got the Fit Sport which has a few more features than the basic model(keyless entry/cruise control/slightly better stero/input for an ipod/a couple of cosmetic differences) It runs about $1300 more and was one of two I found when I was looking.

Fit-$13,950
Fit Sport $15,270

Coming from the Acura, there were some things I still wanted, keyless entry being one of them.

I have logged each tank of gas, have every reciept(except one), and have purchased from the same pump every tank since August.

t's listed at 28/34 mpg. I have averaged 32.82 since August w/6,619 miles so far. The best tank was 35.59 amd the worst was 31.31. I get between 300-340 miles per tank and have to fill up about every two weeks.

Silly to track so detailed, but it is fun/interesting for me.

 

****, maybe I need to get a Fit. If I could trade in close to what the sticker price I could then bank that 12MPG savings over the course of the next 4-6 years....I could save $985 a year at 15k miles a year and $3.5/gallon....thus save 6k over the course of 6 years. Figure if the thing is worth even a few thousand after 6 years then I could trade it in and combined with the money I saved (and yes of course saved) could have around 10k to show for it.....this is vs. driving my already 5 year old truck that gets 20MPG for another 6 years and comparing that 10k to what my truck would then be worth.

Thanks Pied.

 

Just to update and I am sure there are more choices to compare to:

Prius: $21,327 (48 mpg city, 45 mpg highway)
Corolla: $14,430 (28 mpg city, 35 mpg highway), $6897 less
Civic: $14,633 (26 mpg city, 34 mpg highway), $6694 less

Assume a 70/30 city/highway split and 12,000 miles per year, with gas at $4.15 per gallon. Annual fuel costs for the 3 vehicles are:

Prius: $1,057 (47.1 MPG)
Corolla: $1,654 (30.1 MPG)
Civic: $1,753 (28.4 MPG)

Prius saves you $597 per year over Corolla and $696 per year over Civic. ROI is 11.5 years for Corolla and 9.6 years over Civic. Still not very cost effecive but the gap is closing.

At $6/gallon, the ROI for Corolla is 8 years and Civic is 6.6 years.

 

Forget a Prius or Fit. I'm buying guns and a hidden underground fortress for when all the environmentally responsible, fiscally sound and emotionally mature guys who lease new Hummers every year come looking for my home-canned vegetables.

 

My 96, Accord 5 speed averages 28 mpg city/hwy. It now has 200k miles on it and (knock on wood) is running like a top. My wife's 5 yr old Honda van gets about 22 in the same conditions, but when I drive it, it gets closer to 26. Pretty happy with both. Never understood why so many soccer moms had to have the Suburbans/Tahoes/Danalis/Explorers while her van has most of the functionality of all of these with a lot better mpg performance, cheaper ownership costs and seemingly better quality than all of these.

 

let me know when i can get a car with a flux capacitor.

 

sig check

 

Yeah the soccer mom image thing has done some serious damage. Also they like to carry around a lot of crap.

Smart Cars, I don't know. I'd rather not die... I'd be worried that if someone rear-ended me I'd end up in east jesus.

I'm waiting for the Chevy Volt & other plug-ins. Once they figure out how to stop them from randomly catching on fire.

 

I bought a Prius in December and really like it.

 

That is fine if gas stays $4.00 a gallon or less but if gas prices go over $5.00 a gallon does that push the numbers higher for buying a Prius, what about $5.50 or $6.00 a gallon?

 

This is a consideration, plus you can fill up at home.
The Link
The Link

 

We have two vehicles right now a Chevy Venture minivan and an Expedition with the big block. The minivan gets about 26 mpg if we have a good mix of highway driving in the mix, about 22 otherwise, it actually hold 9 people and has MORE ROOM behind the rear seat than my Expedition.

Looked at Chevy Malibu today, and it gets about 30 mpg on the highway and it's pretty darn nice. The real problem is that we do occassionally need the towing capacity otherwise I wouldn't have gotten the SUV to begin with.

We are driving to Destin in a couple weeks and doing the math was interesting, from a gas cost/depreciation perspective. The Expedition is our "A" vehicle with the lower mileage, but when I start putting thinking about the 51 cents a mile the government says is the normal operating cost, renting a Malibu for a week and cutting the gas cost is about a $100 net expense that will save... approximately $400 in depreciation/wear and tear.... Still probably taking the expedition for the room. Filling the big cooler with tenderlion and vino from COSTCO probably makes it a wash...

It's tempting to drop the SUV, let the minivan head up into the 150K range, and buy a new Malibu. I am actually lucky that I am not completely upside down on the SUV so I actually ahve an option of trading it in without writing a big check to downsize.....

Still conventional high mileage gasoline is not only better economically, but they won;t run over as many blind people at intersections....