One story everyone seems to agree about

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by ProdigalHorn, Sep 14, 2018.

  1. ProdigalHorn

    ProdigalHorn 10,000+ Posts

    Did Amber Guyger kill Botham Shem Jean over noise?

    A friend of mine knew the man who was shot, and knew him to be an upstanding, godly man who was deeply involved with the church. At least according to the family's attorney, witnesses completely refute the officer's testimony of events, most of which didn't pass the smell test at first reading.

    It seems the only people who don't think the cop broke in and killed this man are in the Dallas PD - which now claims to have found pot in his apartment.
    Lawyers "disgusted" by release of search warrant showing marijuana found in Botham Jean's apartment

    So far the leading theories are romance-gone-bad, drunken rage over loud noise from upstairs, or utter and completely stupidity/incompetence. Regardless, if DPD actually gets this woman off, it's going to get ugly. This is clearly someone who has no business being a cop.
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  2. OrngNugz

    OrngNugz 500+ Posts

    This is nothing but a disgusting attempt to assassinate the character of another black man. This is why they kneel.
  3. mb227

    mb227 2,500+ Posts

    Are you seriously trying to persuade us that the SAME warrants would not have been executed had the victim been white? Dead is dead and warrants are warrants.

    The cop clearly screwed the pooch and will be exhausting their retirement account to pay for competent counsel. From what has been described about HOW the conduct came to pass, it appears that dead would still be dead regardless of whether the deceased was white, brown, yellow or red...
  4. OrngNugz

    OrngNugz 500+ Posts

    No one is talking about the warrant you numb-nut. We are talking about the character assassination that occurs after almost every/any high profile incident with a police officer.
    Where is the search warrant for Amber Guygers house? She is the shooter, dont they typically get search warrants for known shooters too? I mean she is the one that is accused of the crime and I think they know where she lives. Warrants are warrants right? Where is it? What did they find in her home? Im not saying they are covering for her since she is white, they cover for her since she is police.
    This is why they kneel.
  5. mb227

    mb227 2,500+ Posts

    The warrants in this case are as much about preserving a crime scene as they are anything else. However, the media does not believe in putting something out without a spin. That pot was found in the residence of the deceased is not character is fact.

    If there is reason to believe that there is evidence of any type that is in the residence of the officer AND she is not consenting to the search of the residence, then there would be a warrant. If she consented to a search, there is ZERO need for a warrant. However, dead guy cannot consent and thus a warrant is required.

    The same process would exist regardless of the color of the deceased OR the shooter. But some people want to invent issues where none exist...

    The kneeling is a crock of crap that is part and parcel of the 'look at me' culture of self-made victims...
  6. Horns11

    Horns11 5,000+ Posts

    I agree regarding the legal process but not the process after the warrant was served. There's a reason that this ended up as a front page headline. And it's not the "friendly garden-variety accidental shooting" reason. It's precisely was Orng said it is and everyone can see that. If this was a case of mistakenly walking into the wrong home in McKinney and a cop accidentally shooting a white man, do you honestly believe the DMN or WFAA run a headline saying the words "warrant" and "marijuana" in it?
  7. Run Pincher

    Run Pincher 500+ Posts

    Exactly! And everyone in the whole world knows that the character of a white man has never been attacked due to the incompetence/gross negligence of a police officer. A black police officer would never make a mistake of any kind.
  8. Run Pincher

    Run Pincher 500+ Posts

    And the fact that the whole movement is based on a lie. A white man is twice as likely to be shot by a white police officer during an encounter as a black man. That certainly tells me white police officers are being twice as diligent to avoid shooting a black man vs a white man.
    When is Colin K going to take a knee for white victims?
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  9. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    Well, her "I was disoriented and entered the wrong apartment" plea kind of negates any other possibility including they were arguing over his being too noisy (no reason to shoot him but would indicate she deliberately confronted him, escalated the situation then shot him. What's the charge for that?) or that she suspected drug activity and went in to investigate (without a warrant?) and/or make an arrest.
  10. ProdigalHorn

    ProdigalHorn 10,000+ Posts

    So people were up in arms that the police had issued a search warrant in the first place, which I had no problem with. I had an issue with releasing a story that emphasized that they found pot - which I don't know whether that's the police or the news media that bears responsibility. The police issue a warrant, they find stuff, the news media decides what to publish about that.

    Anyway... guess what they found out as a result of the search warrant?

    'Dallas cop was trying to open her black neighbor's door with keys'

    A newly released search warrant claims the Dallas cop was trying to open the door with a set of keys when he confronted her and she shot him, a bombshell revelation which significantly undermines her claim she found him sitting inside in the dark.

    The report was obtained by on Friday. It explains why police wanted to search Jean's apartment after his killing for evidence which may inform the Guyger's case.

    It says police officer Amber Guyger, 30, did not arrive at Both Jean's apartment to find the door ajar but rather was trying to unlock it with her set of keys when she appeared there last Thursday after a shift.

    She 'was attempting to enter apartment 1478, with a set of keys', the officer who wrote the report said, when Botham confronted her at the door.

    The report reads: 'During this incident, an off-duty Dallas Police Officer who was wearing a full Dallas Police uniform, was attempting to enter apartment number 1478, with a set of keys.

    'An unknown male, inside the apartment, confronted the officer at the door. A neighbor stated that he heard an exchange of words, immediately followed by at least two gunshots.

    'The officer possibly believed the subject was an intruder, drew her service weapon and fired at the subject, striking him in the chest.'

    Neighbors then heard a brief exchange of words and then gunshots."
  11. mb227

    mb227 2,500+ Posts

    The claim that she was trying to unlock the door does not conflict with the claim of door ajar. The original version, as I understand it, is that she was attempting to unlock the door and that the door opened as she inserted the key, which suggests (using that thing called common sense) that the door was not latched.

    The next part of the claim was that, after the door being unlatched, opened into a dark room, at which point she saw a figure. This is also not inconsistent with the original claim that she believed she had entered her own residence and that it was being burgled.

    This simply does not play out as murder, much to the chagrin of the protest crowd. Tragic accident, absolutely. But someone intending to kill someone is not generally hanging around to render first aid. She ALSO is not going to have complied with a request for the blood draw.

    If her vehicle is, in fact, on the wrong level, then there is nothing that appears to conflict with the version of events offered up in records. This is doubly true given that the apartment is in the same location on the floorplan as hers, save for the difference in the floor.

    The release of affidavit is due to the lunacy that is the public records law. Quite frankly, it would have been far easier to NOT release ANY documents, but then the media fuels the flames of the demographic screaming cover-up. So instead, the affidavit is released and is reported upon, and now it becomes one of 'character assassination' instead of simply being a report about what was found in the residence where the warrant was required.

    It will not surprise me, before all is said and done, if this winds up coming back as no more than the State Jail Felony of Criminally Negligent Homicide.
  12. Statalyzer

    Statalyzer 10,000+ Posts

    Quite possibly, yes.

    If anything it just throws the "I thought it was my own house" line into question. Why would she have found it believable to be smelling pot in her own house?
  13. mb227

    mb227 2,500+ Posts

    Have not seen whether the pot was actively being smoked at the time, but there are PLENTY of cases in trial courts where some dumbass broke into a house and was drinking or smoking IN THE HOUSE THEY BROKE INTO. I know of more than a dozen this year alone just in one metro area...
  14. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    There has been a lot of coverage and the character of the handsome young man who lost his life is portrayed as intelligent, gregarious and beloved. I can't remember a murder case where the victim has been treated more kindly by the media.
    A few grams of marijuana on an islander that age?
    Come on man.
    I know the wait for justice will be painful for his family. They have my prayers, but we can't punish the killer until all the facts are understood, just like in every other homicide.
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    Last edited: Sep 15, 2018
  15. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    No, it's not weird to get a search warrant for the apartment, and no, it's not weird to release the warrant to the public as well as the findings of the search. And no, it's not character assassination by the police. He had weed in his apartment. That is fact. No reason to hide that fact. And that's pretty much the end of my defense of the cops.

    Nevertheless, there is almost no chance that Guyger didn't lie when the arrest warrant was issued. She did not accidentally enter the wrong apartment. At least the evidence we have now simply doesn't support that. At the time she shot the guy, she knew where she was.

    Was it about noise? Maybe, but I have a hard time buying that. If you have a noisy neighbor, you call the complex. If it's really bad, you might even call the cops. You don't show up on your own literally with guns blazing.

    We have witness statements that there was banging on the door. However, the evidence also indicates that the shooting was across the room from the door. What does that suggest? It suggests that she knocked, and he let her in.

    I suspect that there was a relationship between the two. His family denies that, but he may not have told them about it. It may not have "gotten serious" yet, or maybe he thought they wouldn't like the idea of him dating a white chick. Who knows? But the presence of a relationship makes the most sense.

    Does all this make it murder? No. We need more information to establish that, but this cop is a liar.

    And she's not a very smart liar. Let's suppose that her original story was true and that she accidentally went into his apartment. What would he reasonably assume? He'd reasonably assume that he was being broken into. Well, that would tend to justify him shooting her, not her shooting him. She's in the wrong either way.
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  16. ProdigalHorn

    ProdigalHorn 10,000+ Posts

    That's why I'm leaning toward thinking this was an issue of a drunk cop stumbling to the wrong apartment, finding it locked, not being able to get it, hearing someone inside asking what's going on, yelling at him to open the door, he opens, she starts yelling and shoots. I don't know how to fill in the details of this, but my guess is the tox report on the cop is going to show someone who was massively drunk, and has no business being anywhere near a uniform ever again, and definitely needs to do some time.
    Definitely haven't ruled out that there's a relationship component, and I definitely wouldn't rule out a homicide charge. But the DA needs to learn the lesson from Maryland. Don't outkick your coverage. If you don't have murder, don't push for murder.
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  17. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    The DA in Maryland probably pushed murder because the angry mob of stupid people always wants murder, not because the DA actually thought he'd get a conviction for murder.
  18. LongestHorn

    LongestHorn 1,000+ Posts

    Officer Guyger was indicted for murder. I never saw a toxicology report. But I did see his giant bright red doormat. Did not see her giant red doormat. I do not possess formal public safety observation training, though.

    2020 trial promises to be a memorable one.
  19. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    Good. I'm not a cop hater and don'tdon't they're a bunch of closet Nathan Bedford Forrests like some do. However, when there's clear evidence of dishonesty and wrongdoing by a cop, he or she has to be held accountable. I don't know what happened that night, but I do know that it didn't happen like she claimed it did.
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2018
  20. ProdigalHorn

    ProdigalHorn 10,000+ Posts

    Clearly the initial story was a lie. Hoping now that the hysterical initial reactions to "police cover-up" and and "where's the search warrant for her apartment" can go away and the actual results of the investigation can come out.
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  21. theiioftx

    theiioftx 2,500+ Posts

    Something tells me their was some sort of relationship here that went bad. I think the cop is lying on multiple fronts. All of this is speculation as I have no knowledge of the total situation. This just seems domestic in some way.
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  22. LongestHorn

    LongestHorn 1,000+ Posts

  23. I35

    I35 2,500+ Posts

    I’m not familiar with the story or I just don’t remember it. But if she accidentally parked on the wrong floor in the parking garage or had to park on the 4th floor because no spots on the 3rd, then it clearly makes sense that she could have went to the wrong apartment. I actually did that years ago in my apartment complex. I got in the elevator and pushed the 3rd floor, but it opened at the 2nd floor. I stepped out and every floor is identical. I went to put the key in and my door wasn’t locked. I peaked in and there was a guy in the kitchen cooking just staring at me. Even then at first I was confused because my first thought was “WTF is this guy doing cooking in my kitchen.” Then I saw the apartment furniture and other stuff different and it dawned on me what had happened. I apologized explaining what happened. I didn’t want him thinking I was breaking in to steal something. It can easily happened.

    If the victim was white she wouldn’t have a murder charge against her. Most likely manslaughter. But of course I don’t know all the details either. I’m just saying it’s easy to get confused when each floor is identical (if that’s the case at that complex.). But I think it’s damn near 100% that when a white police officer goes on duty that day that they never think “today I’m going to shoot a black guy”
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  24. LongestHorn

    LongestHorn 1,000+ Posts

    If any one of us had accidentally walked into the wrong house and murdered a cop living there, do you think we'd be having this discussion?
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  25. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 1,000+ Posts

    What would the discussion be if a cop murdered a cop under the same circumstances?
  26. LongestHorn

    LongestHorn 1,000+ Posts

  27. LongestHorn

    LongestHorn 1,000+ Posts

  28. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    The 9-1-1 call was telling on a lot of fronts. A series of misjudgments and mistakes. Not a lot of evil intent here, but an innocent man was shot down in his own home.
  29. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    I don't think the call solidifies the murder charge much. She's acting like someone who is freaked out about shooting somebody - whether she entered intending to kill him or not. I do think the family's civil attorney is correct that it greatly weakens any defense that she feared for her life. She said nothing that would suggest that. (You'll notice
    that he's not saying she murdered him. Everything is framed in terms of her being extremely careless and prejudicial but not wanting to kill him in cold blood. There is a reason for that.)

    Having said that, I do think she lied about what happened. It conflicts wildly with witness statements and common sense. Did she murder him? Maybe, maybe not, but she sure as hell didn't accidentally enter the wrong apartment, see a silhouette in the dark, get scared, and shoot.
  30. Phil Elliott

    Phil Elliott 1,000+ Posts

    In the end, she will be given extra leeway for being a woman. If a male cop had pulled this, even if it went down exactly as she says, he would be under the jail already.
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