Apparently the CBO did send a number to Pelosi. the 940 million number the /Dems are so gleeful about I sorta hoped no one would be fooled but I think they will be.The Link
here is an interesting letter John Boehner sent to Obama The part about this being about the people instead of it being about 0bama as 0bama said was particulary apt."“Mr. President, This Isn’t About You … It’s About the American People”“Well, it’s pretty clear that Democrat leaders here in Congress and the President aren’t listening to the American people. Because the American people are saying, ‘stop!’ and they’re screaming at the top of their lungs. The President’s latest ploy as he’s dealing with Members trying to convince them to vote against their constituents and to vote with him, is to make the point that his presidency is on the line. Well, I’m sorry Mr. President, this isn’t about you. It’s not about the office you hold and it’s not about the Speaker. This is about the American people and the health care system that they want for our country. We’ve made clear that it’s time to scrap this bill and start over on commonsense reforms to make our current health care system better. But no, they are going to continue to ram, ram, ram this bill through the Congress. Every kind of scheme known to man to try and get it through the Congress without a vote. “We’re going to have an opportunity for the Members today to vote on a straight up-or-down resolution, about requiring a straight up-or-down vote on this bill. It’ll be part of our Previous Question when we get a Rule bill up, and Members will have a chance to vote on that. But I can tell you this, that Republicans in the House and Senate have worked closely together or the last year, and we’re going to continue to work closely together to do everything that we can do to make sure that this bill never, ever, ever passes.”The Link Dems should be ashamed Obama said that. As Kathleen Parker said in an WaPO op yesterday IF this was a good bill it would pass with no shenigans.
I can't imagine how Congressional leadership could possibly have a heads up hours before the official report is published. What it might*** report later today: 1. CUTS THE DEFICIT Cuts the deficit by $130 billion in the first ten years (2010 – 2019). Cuts the deficit by $1.2 trillion in the second ten years. 2.REINS IN WASTEFUL MEDICARE COSTS AND EXTENDS THE SOLVENCY OF MEDICARE; CLOSES THE PRESCRIPTION DRUG DONUT HOLE Reduces annual growth in Medicare expenditures by 1.4 percentage points per year—while improving benefits and lowering costs for seniors. Extends Medicare’s solvency by at least 9 years. 3.EXPANDS AND IMPROVES HEALTH COVERAGE FOR MIDDLE CLASS FAMILIES Expands health insurance coverage to 32 million Americans Helps guarantee that 95 percent of Americans will be covered. 4. IS FULLY PAID FOR Is fully paid for – costs $940 billion over a decade. (Americans spend nearly $2.5 trillion each year on health care now and nearly two-thirds of the bill’s cost is paid for by reducing health care costs).
Someone, anyone should ask Dems if they will use numbers twice. once here and again in the future. That wouldn't be made clear here but is something serious enough to settle before this votes. Also one new element is the Federal takeover of student loans which is in this. So the CBO had to use the savings of this to score the health care part when in fact this has nothing to do with it
Next time the Pubs want to start a war maybe they should raise taxes for a few years before and see how politically viable it is. That'd be the day.
JohnnyM, We aren't talking about war here. If we do that on another thread, then I believe, you have a VERY valid point. That is not a point that is relevant to the issue discussed on this thread. So taxes are raised, per the CBO about 500 billion dollars with this bill over the first 10 years, and we are saving 130 billion? That is akin to me getting a $5,000 bonus at work, and my wife spending $3,700 on a dress and telling me our bonus 'saved' us $1,300....
I explained on another thread recently both some of the shenanigans that have led to the "savings" CBO scores on the HC plan (at least as of the previous Senate bill score) as well as the reasons this bill is not even set up to solve the problems people claim it does. Anyone still believing the numbers coming out are revealing of actual fiscal progress that this bill would represent are (possible deliberately) ignorant of reality. Believe what you want-- there is freedom of religion in this country. I will evaluate the new score along with the new assumptions and conditions applied by CBO as instructed by the majority, but I do not expect a major surprise as no substantially new bill has been proposed for scoring.
I just had a chance to start reviewing the CBO score. I have already read CBO's pronouncement that the HC components of the reconciliation bill (it also includes some student loan provisions, as mentioned above) add to the deficit more than the Senate bill would as previously passed. In other words, the reconciliation bill is worse than the senate bill. Unless you count reforming student loans as reforming healthcare, in which case it is not quite as bad overall.
chango to answer your question on Boehners quote. it was a Dem congressman, Raul Grijalva, who reported that Obama said that in a meeting of progressives.Take it up with him Do you also deny Obama said the Lousiana Purchase clause in the bill would also benefit Hawaii which went through an earthquake?? I guess the entire world except for Obama missed that earthquake Do you also deny Obama said premiums would go down 3000%?That is some premium reduction. I can understand someone of your "ilk" would rather not qeustion what comes out of Obama's mouth. Do you have an archive of stupid stuff Bush said ? That seems to be a favorite trick , to say , well Bush did it too. Anyone who doesn't think Obama has made it all about him isn't paying attention to what he has said I can only wisg Dems would take a real look at this bill and at the CBO report before voting.
As someone that works in Healthcare and have had close contact with CMS eligibility, I would like to throw out what many of you already know. Medicare denies more procedures than insurance companies, the paperwork and red tape are ten times that of an insurance company. Medicare puts limits on how many days you are covered, Medicare does not reimburse Drs. at a fair rate. In other words they are better than nothing, but they already ration and with more people on the roles they will ration much more. The bald face lie that middle class people will have better coverage, better care, and cheaper = laughable. The cheapest insurance plan is probably better than the best Medicare plan.
Horn6721, I don't follow the daily workings of Washington like you do. The President may or may not have said these things. What I do know is that if you have a valid link you post it. If you don't, you still make the claims in your own cute way-- with tons of question marks everywhere. In any case, you said we should be ashamed and I say "prove he said it and I will be - otherwise there is no reason to be ashamed". I'm taking it up with you because you said it. Again, if you could provide a link to an actual quote from Raul Grijalva I'm sure you would have already. And I'm not going down your path of bringing President Bush into it. Find one example of me saying "Bush did it too" and we'll talk. Otherwise you're just pissing in the wind yet again.
Even if this passes, won't it be tied up in law suites for the next decade b/c of how the process has gone? This just seems like one big cluster f**k from every angle.
I am leaning towards the Randy Newman logic when dealing with health care. "Lets drop the big one and see what happens"
Kp has pointed out that the numbers only work if they use the take over of student loans, which was not in the bill and does not relate to health care. Plus a Dem has yet to answer the double counting of billions. Shouldn't that be an important part and deserve an answer?
