Our next OC and DC

Discussion in 'On The Field' started by El Sapo, Dec 1, 2019.

  1. RainH2burntO

    RainH2burntO 1,000+ Posts

    I'm sorry, but at risk of starting another fire with the "everything is about coaching" crowd, my theory is there's alot more to a program's sustainability than coaches. I think the axiom "he can take hisuns and beat yoursuns and take yoursuns and beat hisuns" also may loosely apply to schools/programs and coaches.
    Shoot me if you want....but some people on here cant explain why you get the feeling that a few programs out there can just plug someone in and keep rolling.
    LSU, Ohio St., OU, Georgia, and I bet Bama and Clemson could too right now.
    But yet a school like ours is struggling to find a coach and see him be successful and we say its ALL about coaching.
    I will say this...I think Patterson and Strong really set us back and made the program seem in worse shape now than it actually will turn out to be, but there is still reason to ask tough questions that go beyond just coaching.
    What's the difference between us and them is a great question to ask...
    (If anyone wants to bash me about coaching you haven't read all of my posts well and don't understand my position, so dont waste my time. I've posted plenty of times critically of coaching and highlighted our deficiencies and needs, along with importance of great coaching)
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019
  2. RainH2burntO

    RainH2burntO 1,000+ Posts

    It's funny, Bill. I went back and reread your post, and it was posted right after my "better find an experienced first-mate" post. I asked myself..though I'm not the only one.. Why did I say this?
    The answer lies in my belief that we...we...based on who we have been recently, and who we are right now, need this. If you ask me in another season of football life, I'd say play it looser maybe. Just my 2 pence.
    And honestly I dont feel that strongly about it....I jumped in more because I am passionate about my above post and what separates us from some programs with more sustained success...and my belief that it isnt just coaching.
     
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  3. SabreHorn

    SabreHorn 5,000+ Posts

    Rain,

    Consider the assistants that Stoops has had in Norman. He didn't always have the cream of the crop - see also Chuck Long. Stoops was the captain of his ship and the buck stopped with him, if it ever got that far. OU had leadership at multiple levels and in the locker room. The same is true of Saban and Myth. That tends to breed success.
     
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  4. RTM4

    RTM4 25+ Posts

    Really? I can remember us needing really short yardage all year and never doing it and I cannot remember the play you are referring too during the Tech game at all. I honestly cannot remember the last game and situation that Texas has gone under center with Herman coaching.

    If they did, it must have been a blown call or some other error because I remember multiple times we have been stopped this season with the supposed power with Ehlinger running the ball from the shotgun.

    One play is an outlier, not part of some magical offensive plan that was served up all year.
     
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  5. RTM4

    RTM4 25+ Posts

    Again, I don't really have any opinions on who takes over but I do hope they can bring something, a spark or philosophy with them to take over and help this team.

    Defense, anyone who can coach basic defense is fine by me. No need for blitzes from south Austin and yes, I would like to see a four man line to put heavy pressure on the quarterback.
     
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  6. AC

    AC 1,000+ Posts

    I believe low depth levels and injuries caused ~3 extra loses this year. It’s not 100% coaching. Coaching could have erased those loses or maybe 2 of them. But, I’ve been too slow to react before. Am I alone in that? No. TH reacted slow so did TO. TB probably never should have been an OC. TH learning on the job is ok with me. His IQ, youth and passion make up for inexperience. IF his hires are better this time he will succeed and be here a long time. Bama will be going down this road in a few years. Saban is wearing out!

    This business is cyclical.
     
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  7. SabreHorn

    SabreHorn 5,000+ Posts

    RTM,

    We did indeed run one play with Sam under center, but there were a couple of flaws with the call:

    1) If you run a surprise play, you don't line up and wait 20 seconds to give the defense time to adjust

    2) Running it as a surprise, no one has to move but the center, but when the DL stands every OL straight up, there is no forward movement. not much chance of success.

    Now Herman has his excuse for not putting the QB under center again. Mensa was right and I was not.

    :hookem2:
     
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  8. dukesteer

    dukesteer 2,500+ Posts

    Consider yourself shot...
     
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  9. dukesteer

    dukesteer 2,500+ Posts

    It’s just not true. I challenge you to do a Wikipedia search of coaches and records for the programs you mentioned. I have. (Please don’t make me publish all those records.)

    In most cases — certainly Bama, Clemson and OU just to name three — there were plenty of duds between the winning coaches, and years of irrelevance.

    Plug and play doesn’t work in college football. When we have the right coach, as I have said before, we will be back on top of the heap. We just don’t know yet if that is Herman, but signs are that it may not be.
     
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  10. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Did we ever forgive Blake Gideon?
    Still too soon?

     
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  11. SabreHorn

    SabreHorn 5,000+ Posts

    Duke,

    Are you saying John Blake, Howard "if you don't shut the **** up and get me a scotch your kid gets no scholarship" Schnellenberger, David Shula are guys that broke the mold?

    :hookem2:
     
  12. RainH2burntO

    RainH2burntO 1,000+ Posts

    For one...I'm talking recent history...not 40 years, Duke.
    I'm not suggesting something as simple as plug n play, either.
    If you cant see that there are quite a few programs that have more sustained success and stability than us, regardless if they change coaches or not, Duke, then I cant make you see it no matter what I say or point to as evidence.
    Be honest with yourself...If you had 10 million dollars and you had to place a bet on upcoming success of teams out of a pool all of which were overhauling their coaches at the same time and could pick from the same pool of coaches...go ahead....rank em'...
    LSU, Ohio St, Alabama, OU, Georgia, Clemson, Oregon, Boise St, Texas, Michigan, Penn State, Auburn, Wisconsin, Notre Dame
    Honestly, is Texas in the top5? Why not?
    Remember, your money.
    And now lets take it farther and say same bet but they all, miraculously, hire the same coaches. Do you actually believe they would all have the same results (discounting opponent strength difference)? Do you think Vegas would give each school the same odds?
    Why not??
    And furthermore...to Bill's point....even at the most base level of this, my example obviously is ridiculous because we know these schools wouldn't choose the same coaches and make the same quality of decisions, so there must be a difference between the programs and culture/leadership and approach to the football program. What is the difference?
    I don't even care if you answer my questions. Can we drop this and do something more fun?
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019
  13. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    IT says Tom Herman and Graham Harrell will meet in Houston today

    also ....
     
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  14. RainH2burntO

    RainH2burntO 1,000+ Posts

    No
     
  15. ViperHorn

    ViperHorn 10,000+ Posts

    I don't repent Sabre. Don't run it if you haven't practiced it at length. Surely Hand taught the OL how to drive and stay low. The failure of the play is either on Hand or the OL. Yes, they should have shifted into the formation and ran it quickly, but even as screwed up as it was, the yard was there if the OL had executed.
     
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  16. dukesteer

    dukesteer 2,500+ Posts

    Ok, consider the subject dropped. But if you go there again I cannot be held responsible for my knee jerk reactions.

    :herring:
     
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  17. RainH2burntO

    RainH2burntO 1,000+ Posts

    Oh Thank God. You are clearly stronger than me, and I thank you. I was already preparing my next points. For this, you win.
    :whiteflag:
     
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    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019
  18. LonghornCatholic

    LonghornCatholic Romantic Catholic

  19. SabreHorn

    SabreHorn 5,000+ Posts

    No bidding wars. Flat salary plus LARGE incentives. IF Herman interferes with him reaching his goals, Herman pays the would have been incentives out of his salary.
     
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  20. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada Winebibber

    2nd drive, 4th down call. Sam went under center, tried the sneak, and our OL got submarined and Sam was stopped for a half yard gain, if that.

    Bottom line, if the OL gets their *** kicked we fail to execute regardless of whether Sam is under center or in the shotgun.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019
  21. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    UNLV and UTSA.
    But apparently would still make more as an assistant in Austin
     
  22. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    TFB says Herman is interviewing a DC candidate today, not named Chris Ash

    Another name for the DL is Ohio State DL coach Larry Johnson

    And another name for DB coach Kerry Coombs (also formerly of tOSU) and currently in the NFL
     
  23. RainH2burntO

    RainH2burntO 1,000+ Posts

    Right, that was Tech. And wasnt it Baylor deep in their territory early we ran two in a row off center right with Sam needing a yard and got stuffed twice to turn it over?
    I have memory of a handful more, too. Can't think of them all right now. Didnt we do this at midfield twice vs OSU? It has definitely happened a handful of times this year.
     
  24. SouthBayHorn

    SouthBayHorn 25+ Posts

    We should consider Jim Leonard (Wis) and Phil Parker (Iowa), who both have produced stout defenses with 3-star talent.
     
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  25. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    For the sake of the record, the 2010s were the worst decade in history.
    Here were our OCs through that decade

    2010: Greg Davis
    2011: Bryan Harsin/Major Applewhite
    2012: Bryan Harsin/Major Applewhite
    2013: Major Applewhite/Darrell Wyatt
    2014: Shawn Watson/Joe Wickline
    2015: Jay Norvell
    2016: Sterlin Gilbert
    2017-19: Tim Beck*


    *2018 was the only time we made the B12 Title Game the whole decade
     
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    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
  26. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts



    Our Pass Offense was #19 this season
    Percentage Passing Plays:
    USC: 57%
    Texas: 52%

    I think Sam could handle more passing requirements just fine, but not everyone agrees
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
  27. BurntOrangeLH

    BurntOrangeLH 2,500+ Posts

    It is just remarkable that anyone who actually saw Texas play the last three years did not see any four man fronts on defense.
     
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  28. BurntOrangeLH

    BurntOrangeLH 2,500+ Posts

    So who were the offensive coordinators during the years that Texas won 9 or 10 games?

    I would note also that Beck did not called a play after 2017. So I don't know if he is really an Offensive Coordinator in 2018 and 2019 except in title.
     
  29. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    During this decade, we only did that twice (including this season as 9-10 wins is impossible)--
    We won 9 in 2012, counting the bowl game
    And won 10 in 2018, counting the bowl game
    OCs above
     
  30. Dionysus

    Dionysus Cocky + Relaxed Admin

    He might just be a very solid coach. I would not have any qualms about it if Blake were to join the staff.
     
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