Post-Trump GOP

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by BrntOrngStmpeDe, Jan 25, 2021.

  1. BrntOrngStmpeDe

    BrntOrngStmpeDe 1,000+ Posts

    I for one, think we need to jettison Trump and distance the GOP from his presidency. With phrases like "the President was not a fiscal conservative in the mold of the GOP". We also need to squash all the Ivanka/Candace memes. I can't think of anything worse at this point than someone named Trump vying for any federal level position.

    Never a big Trump fan, which is not to say that I don't think he did (or at least tried to do) some good things. I agreed with his overall intent about 70% of the time, his strategy about 50% and his daily tactics about 30%. His last 6 weeks in office did substantial damage to the GOP not only in GA, but in our near term prospects. He couldn't set his ego aside for even a short period to help the party and to help block the crazy democrat agenda.

    Trump never got the fact that he needed the party to move the ball forward in a lasting way. As a result, the few things he got right will be washed away with executive orders. Love 'em or hate 'em, we need people that will at least listen to experienced politicians when they are in charge. Trump wouldn't listen to anyone and as a result, we have very little in the way of conservative legislation to show for his four years.

    As a leader, he just sucked. He couldn't even get along with the people he hand picked.

    Good riddance and the quicker he disappears from the party leadership the better off we will all be.
     
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  2. Monahorns

    Monahorns 5,000+ Posts

    The GOP is a dead party. Too many neocons still hold most of the power in the party. They aren't fiscally conservative either, btw.

    There needs to be a new party that takes the populism and culture warrior (or at least pushes back fiercely against Cultural Marxism) parts of Trump's agenda and mixes that with real conservative values like reducing the size/power of government, reducing government spending, increasing/protecting political and economic freedom, and focusing the military on defending the American continent not regime change in the Middle East.

    This would not be the old Republican voting base. It would take in the working class but lose some of the rich business men.
     
  3. UTChE96

    UTChE96 2,500+ Posts

    The GOP has to focus on keeping those blue collar workers in the Rust belt that Trump connected with. Bad mouthing Trump or helping to convict him in the Senate trial would be a disaster. Focus on the good things he brought to the table and start to move on. Remember Reagan's 11th Commandment. The GOP needs to practice that one religiously.

    The America First message that Trump brought will be a key differentiator against the globalists in the Democratic party. At the same time, the GOP should start to focus again on fiscal conservatism even though they have less than zero credibility on the topic anymore.
     
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  4. OUBubba

    OUBubba Reluctant and Bullied Sponsor

    As an American and a Democrat living in a red state, I agree with you. My high school football coach was a prince among men. He taught us that a true leader wins as a team and steps forward to take accountability when the team doesn't succeed. It saddens me when I see that flag in his front yard every day as those two men are so far apart in character.

    As a Democrat, I feel like the more the Josh Hawley's of the world have power over the Mitt Romney's or the Ben Sasse's of the world the better off we are. Likewise, if the left gives way to the squad or the far left it would be good for the right.

    We need to get back to crossing party lines to support good government.
     
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  5. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    Is it possible to jettison Trump and still keep his base? The Republican party went all-in on a cult of personality and is now Trump's party. Look at Arizona for a good example. If you aren't supporting Trump the Republicans want to excise you. The party is no longer moored to a political philosophy but the whims of its dear leader.

    Jettisoning Trump would happen if 17 R Senators voted to impeach. It won't happen but if it did Trump would certainly go to war against the GOP. It would tear the party in 2. That's the Faustian bargain Republicans made in 2016.
     
  6. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    Another example that the GOP is Trump's party. Oregon Republican Party calls Jan. 6th a "false flag" operation and condemns anyone that voted for impeachment.

    At what point do the more rational party members like @BrntOrngStmpeDe realize that their party has been stolen and likely never to return? The extremists nabbed it and now own it. There's a lesson to be learned by there by the Democrats if they are open to learning.

     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
  7. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    I Know Trump Haters HATE:)smile1:) comparing Biden's EOs in first week and the effect on Americans to Trump's first EOs.
    So far NO ONE has defended Biden on this. Why?
    Btw here is a list of Trump's accomplishments as of Aug 31.2020
    Are all valid ? maybe not. But enough are to make the point.
    Trump Accomplishments (scribd.com)
     
  8. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 2,500+ Posts

    Go ahead and provide some facts to back up tis wonderful claim.
     
  9. Creek

    Creek 1,000+ Posts

    The more I saw what Trump was able to do, the more I realized Bush was pretty worthless. And Romney, McCain and other Senators were jealous frauds-( sounds like Rome?) Obama was just the black guy trend. He only did 4 things in 8 years and 3 of them were bad.
    The GOP party is pretty lame but still better than Dems.
     
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  10. horninchicago

    horninchicago 10,000+ Posts

    Being a democrat commenting on a GOP thread is kind of like being a fan of a different team and joining a Longhorn board.

    Oh, wait....
     
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  11. OUBubba

    OUBubba Reluctant and Bullied Sponsor

    Well played. I do feel a little triggered. :)
     
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  12. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    I see the opposite. The only thing going backwards towards W, McCain and Romney as the "leaders of the party" would do is ensure more Dems in the WH. Open Borders, amnesty, giving illegal aliens the right to vote, banning fracking, trade deals favorable to China (and everyone else), more foreign wars, liberal justices, support for the Mullahs of Iran, raising taxes on small businesses, setting monetary policy based on climate change/transgender discrimination all spell disaster for the USA.

    I will concede to you that some professional Republican politicians do like being the permanent minority party. But they are wrong and are in the job for the wrong reasons. A majority of us have lost patience with them. They need to do us all a favor and retire. Step aside and let new candidates who don't just want a cushy job and who actually want to improve the country in those positions.
     
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  13. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    It is somewhat shocking they have not banned this guy yet
    Sadly, it is probably just a matter of time.

     
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  14. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    He will be deleted and blocked
     
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  15. theiioftx

    theiioftx Sponsor Deputy

    I would like to see Trump start a party, but not be the party's POTUS candidate. I am not sure he would allow it. They could nominate someone who thinks the same policy wise, but has the self awareness to not be such a blatant A-hole all of the time.
     
  16. BrntOrngStmpeDe

    BrntOrngStmpeDe 1,000+ Posts

    That would be a good thing. I think Trump tried to do some good things. His biggest failing IMO is the spin that he had to put on everything...If it was a success, it was ALL him. If it was a failure, it was all the other guy. That does not work as the leader of a democratic country and it won't work as the leader of the party. He has to be willing to forego the accolades and limelight and I just don't see that being possible for Trump.

    And the requirement that everyone pay homage to him. He definitely gave the impression that all he could tolerate were 'yes' men. That's not good in public perception and it is even worse in actual practice .
     
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  17. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    Trump leaving the R party to start anew would be a tremendous development. That would be the domino that would lead to the extreme lefts leaving the Democratic Party. The extremes are squeezing out the centrists. Let them take their balls and go home leaving the adults to govern the country in a rational sane and orderly manner.
     
  18. Chop

    Chop 5,000+ Posts

    Last edited: Jan 28, 2021
  19. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

  20. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    As long as all the examples of hypocrisy that I have posted in the past week continue from the Left, then the country will be ripe for another Trump. The Left is a sickening pack of liars. They opened the door for Trump.
     
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  21. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    @Seattle Husker

    Look at this:

    Against a ‘Climate Emergency’ Power Grab

    "Senate majority leader Chuck Schumer told MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow on Monday that President Joe Biden should declare climate change a national emergency. “The move,” he argued, would allow the president to do “many, many things under the emergency powers.”

    Indeed, such executive action would allow the president to bypass Congress and imbue Biden with unprecedented power to regulate American energy policy. The alleged “climate emergency” touches virtually every aspect of economic life."

    Bystander says: Did anybody dare call Trump a Dictator? Did anyone question the attack on Democracy? This is Chuck Schumer. The Left are the biggest threat we've ever faced.
     
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  22. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    I'm not in favor of that any more than I was in favor of the faux National Emergency that Trump called to steal money allocated for the military to build his wall. As you can imagine, I think balance between Executive and Legislative branches is broken. I voted for Biden because he's the candidate that is closest to understanding and valuing the role of both historically.

    Of course Schumer wants the Executive branch to move forward without the Legislature having to fight particularly tough topics. It reduces the pressure from his more radical members and pulls work off of his plate. This has been a legislative trend for a few decades. Less legislating...more EOs. Neither of them positive developments.

    The question I'd ask of you is why YOU didn't call out Trump for using the same maneuvers for his pet projects. Is it because you agreed with the approach then when the topic was something you felt was important? Maybe you did but certainly not the same energy demonstrated here. From my perspective, BOTH sides are wrong and I'd argue it starts with the legislature and partisanship.
     
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  23. huisache

    huisache 2,500+ Posts

    I am conservative in this sense: I think the constitutional setup where the congress calls the shots and the president just approves and executes the law is the best way to go. That has been increasingly ignored at least since FDR and has accelerated in recent decades. Obama really overdid it with the EOs and Trump seemed to feel he could rule by decree in that way. He justified it, as did Obama, with the lament that the congress wouldn't do anything. Which was true, but if the congress doesn't agree on anything then nothing should be done. Pelosi, not Obama, was able to barely push through the ACA and it is something of a wreck as a result. He did not get a bi partisan bill passed because there is no bi partisan consensus. In the absence of one, there should be nothing happening. Trump is such a narcissist that when the republican congress would not give him anything but a tax cut he started yelling at them and undercutting them in the party. That worked out real well for the democrats.

    Having a charismatic guy with no federal government experience at the top of the heap may work if it is Reagan, who had the affection of the majority of us if not our ideological support. It will not work if the charismatic is considered a boorish narcissist and incompetent, as many people, including republicans, did. Several of my friends who voted for him twice admitted to not liking him---they liked the tax cuts, the de regulation and the way the stock market was affecting their portfolios but they had no use for him.

    I have not voted for a major party presidential candidate in 20 years and keep wishing the GOP would run somebody who is not a war monger or in over their head. Hope springs eternal.

    The last time we had a party collapse of the type some on here are asking for was in 1912 when the narcissist charismatic TR ushered Woodrow Wilson into office. Before that the Democrats split three ways in 1860 and that guy running as a republican won the presidency with 39 per cent of the vote and we got a war out of it. A bad war.

    I don't like wars or party government. I liked Eisenhower a lot when I was kid. Not much of anybody since.
     
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  24. Monahorns

    Monahorns 5,000+ Posts

    bystander, don't forget the ineffectual Bush, McCain, Romney branch of the Republicans.
     
  25. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

  26. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    At least for the short-term, there is no Post-Trump GOP. They had the chance to excise him from the party with the Impeachment vote and chose not to. McCarthy went the other direction and further embraced him. Looks like the moderates have inexplicably chosen to wait him out rather than risk fracturing the party. As much as I dislike McConnel's policy approaches and his duplicity around ensuring that conservatives control the Judicial branch he's still a very astute politician. His strategy on dealing with Trump and his party supporters is opaque at best. At least with McCarthy it's obvious that he's vapid when it comes to policy.
     
  27. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    I think the fear was that voting to impeach or convict him wouldn't have excised Trump but would have excised them. I think they should have done it anyway, but it wouldn't have excised Trump. It would have meant an all-out revolt from the base and primary challenges all over the place.

    I don't think the party leaders really know what to do other than wait and hope things dissipate.
     
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  28. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    It certainly would have created a Civil War within the GOP. They are going to get pushed out regardless. Expect all but Murkowski to get primaried, even Romney. AK has a primary process which reduces the power of any single party. When that happens the GOP will then be a far-right party. I don't think that's good for their long-term election success but as we've discussed ad nauseum that many who identify as "R" or "D" never actually demonstrate knowledge of the policies but treat their political party like a religious affiliation they were born into.
     
  29. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    Those who are seeking reelection will almost surely get primaried, but they are hoping things dissipate on this issue as they often do. Ten House Republicans voted to impeach. They will all get primaried if they run again in '22. They could be in serious trouble. It's ******** that someone like Liz Cheney is going to be called a squishy RINO when she has been a reliable conservative her entire career, but that's coming. She may survive because of her name, but Adam Kinzinger is probably going to lose, and his seat will probably flip if he does.

    Of the senators, only Murkowski is seeking reelection in 2022, and as we've recognized, though she prefers to be the GOP nominee, she doesn't have to be to win. The rest are either retiring or won't be up for reelection until '24 or later.

    The big question is whether or not voters will still be pissed about this 4 or 6 years from now. I think it sorta depends on Trump's activity. Will he still be throwing his weight around and trying to organize the party around himself and his personality? Perhaps, but there's now an opposition party in charge. That means there's more material for Republican incumbents to use to rally the base and encourage unity. Ordinarily, that would be enough to overcome one unpopular vote. However, Trump and issues surrounding Trump (which aren't even policy issues) are very hard to gauge.

    That's a long-winded way of saying that I have no idea what's actually going to happen, and party leaders and officials clearly don't either.
     
  30. mchammer

    mchammer 10,000+ Posts

    One obvious path is to watch the daily **** show from the Biden admin
     
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