Post-Trump GOP

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by BrntOrngStmpeDe, Jan 25, 2021.

  1. Monahorns

    Monahorns 5,000+ Posts

    Christopher Rufo isn't even conservative. He just recognizes trash when he sees it. He isn't trying to bring Trump back to power. He is center left criticizing far left.

    Also, there are interviews of and articles by Rufo on the subject that will better demonstrate his knowledge of CRT and why he is against it. Even clips from his interview with Joy Reid would be helpful.
     
  2. Monahorns

    Monahorns 5,000+ Posts

  3. Monahorns

    Monahorns 5,000+ Posts

  4. Monahorns

    Monahorns 5,000+ Posts

  5. Monahorns

    Monahorns 5,000+ Posts

  6. Monahorns

    Monahorns 5,000+ Posts

    My bad on my comment on the Manhattan Institute. It is conservative, so I guess Rufo is to. I got that wrong.
     
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  7. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    Did you read his defenses? Clearly the same facts can be translated different ways. For example, Chris Rufo's bias to him says that Robin DeAngelo's statements mean that "all whites are racist". DeAngelo goes to great pains to say that not all whites are racist and "contributing" to racism doesn't necessarily make one racist as they may not be aware of their contribution, you know...unconscious bias. Rufo TWISTS the argument to match his agenda, one that appears to be his $$$ train at the current moment.

    I'm certain that the WaPo had some bias in their article but Rufo's responses are simply a restatement of his own bias that he claims is a "hit piece". It does attack is current income model which credibility would be assumed to be important.
     
  8. Monahorns

    Monahorns 5,000+ Posts

    I provided some tweets at least. Please help with out with Robin.

    What I have seen of her teaching, she has said that whites are racist by virtue of being white and if they disagree that is just proof they are racist. So how are we to distinguish the racists from the non-racists? Those who claim to be racist are racist. Those who claim not to be racist are just racists who got their fragile feeling hurt.

    Maybe she if back tracking from the things she said previously now that they got more out in the open and people have called her to account. I would believe her original statements.
     
  9. bystander

    bystander 10,000+ Posts

    I live in Texas. I must be missing something. I'm not being oppressed. Guess it's because I'm white. But I've never met those guys so how would they know? I just live and do the best I can.
     
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  10. Monahorns

    Monahorns 5,000+ Posts

    Here is an excerpt of DiAngelo challenging whites to understand how racist they are, when they don't think they are. Her whole job is to convince white people they are racist. She even admits she is:

    So when someone comes up to you and says, “Hey, I don’t individually do mean things. I hired a Black intern and my brother’s, cousin’s, sister’s, next-door neighbor’s, college roommate actually dated a Black guy once.” When you hear that from people, what is your counter to get them to realize, “No, you still actually have individual responsibility, even if you haven’t individually been hostile to somebody.”

    Well, first of all, I would question whether they had not individually been hostile to somebody or hurtful, because I would imagine the thousand daily cuts that are so exhausting for Black folks in primarily white environments, as I imagine you are aware, they’re not conscious or intentional, but they have an impact, nonetheless. So, that goes back to that question of not if I’ve been socialized into this, but how. My racism doesn’t look like a white nationalist’s racism, but it looks like something. If you grant that the society is built on, rooted in, and permeates with a white supremist ideology and racism, that it is a system in all institutions, then you know you’re a part of it and you can change your question to, “OK, how am I a part of it? What does mine look like? How do I know how well I’m doing?” One, “Do I even have relationships?”

    It always surprises me, white people who live pretty much completely segregated lives, as most white people do, and yet are totally confident that they have no racism, no bias, would never do anything. But on the occasion when they got feedback that they have, how have they responded? If they never got feedback again, odds are, that doesn’t mean they’re doing great. It means they respond in a way that said they can’t hear it. So the relationship just isn’t as authentic as they think that it is. I can’t probably come out and directly say that to somebody who’s saying, “I don’t do mean things,” but that’s what I would try to have them understand and I would also use an analogy that they might be able to relate to. This one’s easy for anyone who identifies as female: to imagine that any man could be untouched by patriarchy. What little boy doesn’t know that it’s better to be a boy than a girl, and things are going to go better for you if you don’t do anything that’s associated with girls or girl-like? It’s really similar around race. We know at a very early age that it’s better to be white. So how is the internalization of that coming out?

    “You Don’t Have to Scratch Very Hard on a White Progressive to Get Them Quite Resentful”
     
  11. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    I'm still waiting for something more than conservative media sources that CRT being taught in schools is a thing. I'm very familiar with Kendi but haven't seen any proof of curriculum being built around even his more moderate stuff, let alone the more extreme viewpoints.

    Yes, we have a lot of aids toward upward mobility but it's still much harder that conservatives believe. The majority of data shows that it's much easier to slip backwards in class than move up. Free education, scholarship funds and things of that ilk are trying to combat the social mobility problem.

    Are you sure you want to use Bill Gates as an example? He was born into uber-wealth, attended Seattle's most exclusive private school for boys (Lakeside HS, current tuition: $38,610) where he met Paul Allen but more importantly had access to technology that no other public school student can dream. His father was a partner in one of Seattle's largest law firms (Preston, Gates and Ellis) and his mother was a Regent at the U of Washington.

    Bill Gates made Microsoft along with Paul Allen and Steve Ballmer, whom he met at Harvard. Still, Gates was born on 3rd base. The company and foundation successes are largely because of Bill Gates but if you don't think his father's money/connections were a large contributor then we'll have to agree to disagree.

    I'm not taking away from his success but rather it's pointing out that in most cases like Gates, Zuckerberg and Trump they started with a massive head start and then though ingenuity and hard work became successful. Bezos may be the exception. In other words, they start as millionaires and become billionaires. Rarely do you see a start with nothing story even reach millionaire status.
     
  12. Monahorns

    Monahorns 5,000+ Posts

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  13. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 2,500+ Posts

    Identity Politics in Cupertino, California Elementary School

    Philadelphia 5th Graders Forced to Celebrate “Black Communism"Philadelphia 5th Graders Forced to Celebrate “Black Communism"

    One for the parents of students:
    NYC public school asks parents to 'reflect' on their 'whiteness'

    Here is a suggested curriculum if you want to teach little kids to be lefties (actually, some of it is okay):
    https://www.learningforjustice.org/...keyword=&sort_by=search_api_relevance&page=31
    They forgot a few lessons, such as:
    "Obeying Police Officers to Avoid Getting Capped in Yo Azz"
    "Burning Buildings During a Riot Creates Pollution!"
    "Keep it in Yo Pants, Fool!" an essay on the virtues of the nuclear family.
    "A Welfare Queen is Not Actually Part of the Royal Family"
     
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  14. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 2,500+ Posts

    Go ahead and point out all that data.
    Okay, explain how his daddy's money helped him write/understand a program that never existed before.
    There are millions of these people. Credit Suisse states there are 56.1 millionaires in the world. 5.6million people became millionaires in 2020. Most of today's millionaires weren't born into their wealth, research shows. A study by Fidelity Investments found that 88% of millionaires are self-made millionaires. ... Those who were born wealthy were more likely to cite inheritance, entrepreneurship and real estate investment appreciation as asset sources.
     
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  15. mchammer

    mchammer 10,000+ Posts

    Anyone with $1m in a 401k wasn’t born wealthy, otherwise how do you save that much unless you worked every day for 30 years? People born with wealth have money from inheritance to invest in new companies, real estate, etc.
     
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  16. bystander

    bystander 10,000+ Posts

    The obsession with privilege is amazing to me. You have to WORK and WORK SMART and GIVE THINGS UP and MAKE SACRIFICES. The Liberal obsession with Obama's, "You didn't do that" or whatever quote is absolutely mind-blowing. It is a political mind that is emotionally attached to political charlatans.

    Bill Gates gets a 10 in my view as a human being who did what he had to do with a superior brain. Period. To say yes but smacks of an agenda at best or if not that, then start with jealousy.
     
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  17. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    Gates maximized the gifts he was given. I give him bonus points for his foundation work. Not sure why acknowledging he started with massive advantages is an insult. Based on my experience within MSFT in the 90's I'd wager he'd be the first to admit he had some advantages. To not acknowledge that also speaks to a bias. It's like reading a book but only every other chapter. Who does that?

    Donald Trump started with $100M from his Father that he increased to $4B. It's not jealousy to compare DJT with the guy that was given $100 and compare their relative increase in net worth.
     
  18. OUBubba

    OUBubba 5,000+ Posts

    Kind of makes your whole takedown of the takedown moot, no?
     
  19. OUBubba

    OUBubba 5,000+ Posts

    What role in Biden’s cabinet is this Robin being nominated for? She seems like a nut. Reminds me of church as a teen being told I could go to hell for my thoughts. I knew I was screwed then.
     
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  20. bystander

    bystander 10,000+ Posts

    Here's the problem with CRT:

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/teacher-goes-viral-lamenting-she-184800832.html

    "Fifty-one percent of my students are Latinx, and many of them are undocumented, and many more have parents who are undocumented,” she said. “When they come into my classroom and see signs that say, ‘No human is illegal,’ they don’t need to know who I voted for. … When my black students come into my classroom and see my Black Lives Matter posters, I don’t need to tell them. When my LGBTQ+ students come in and see my pride flag, I don’t need to tell them.”

    Liberals are obsessive and this teacher is an anecdote but at the same time, what we've seen from Liberals is a defiance to virtue signal and ram their personal opinions into our children's minds.

    The hope for America is private schools.
     
  21. Monahorns

    Monahorns 5,000+ Posts

    No. It has nothing to do with anything. He is still correct in his understanding and assertions.
     
  22. OUBubba

    OUBubba 5,000+ Posts

    You played it up with "even this liberal feels this way about _______".

    So yeah, nothing to see here. You did fess up, which is noble.
     
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  23. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    It's not hard to find. The Southlake controversy was one example, but a lot of schools jumped on the CRT and "anti-racism" bandwagon after the George Floyd protests.

    I'm curious to see something moderate to come out of Kendi's mouth. What I've seen the guy advocate is pretty radical starting with the anti-racism department he endorses. That's the core of his agenda, and it's pretty much an undemocratic dictatorship. He really doesn't hide the ball. He's not a liberal in any sense. He's a totalitarian. He's more erudite and less inflammatory than Louis Farrakhan, but the agenda is every bit as radical.

    Free education is designed to enable upward mobility. That's really the main point. It's supposed to teach marketable skills, which translate into productive work and upward mobility. Obviously it's possible to slip back both through bad luck, bad decisions, or a combination thereof. However, it's miles above medieval Europe when there was virtuality no upward or downward mobility (even with bad decisions). That was the comparison.

    I'm ok with that example. Sure, he had plenty of privilege. I don't question that or diminish its significance. However, there's a reason why very few rich kids turn into Bill Gates. Something else made the big difference. Furthermore, the Gates's family money (which though substantial was pennies compared to what he built) didn't come from nobility or title as it did in medieval Europe. Becoming successful as his parents did required hard work. That isn't given to someone.

    Here's the other more crucial point - one doesn't have to become Bill Gates to be successful. In the US, one can come from very modest means and background, take full advantage of the free education and make wise career decisions (major in something scientific or business-oriented rather than lesbian dance theory) and become reasonably successful. Even without that, one can start a business without asking the king/government for permission and become successful. None of that was true in medieval Europe. If you were born poor, you generally had no opportunity to be anything but poor.

    Also, I've never heard a conservative say any of this was easy. It's not. It takes hard work and initiative, and even with that people can struggle. For example, my dad became fairly successful in his mid-40s with his violin teaching business, but from about 1969-1984, our family struggled. I remember the power and water getting shut off when I was a kid. In 1982, we came very close to losing our home. But dad busted his ***, took whatever work he could find, and made things work. And 3 out of his 4 kids became successful, despite two of them not finishing college. The one who failed (who did finish college) only did so because she spent 30 years making big, stupid decisions - getting pregnant out of wedlock, banging loser guys, acting inappropriately at work, getting busted for DWI, and taking drugs. Nobody can idiot-proof the system that much.
     
  24. Monahorns

    Monahorns 5,000+ Posts


    Yes. But Rufo's analysis still stands.

    James Lindsay is also speaking out against CRT. He was a big name in New Atheism years ago. I don't think he would call himself conservative, or at least didn't start out that way when he first came into contact with it.
     
  25. bystander

    bystander 10,000+ Posts

    This is what we get from academics and more anecdotal evidence that in their hands, CRT will become a political and sociological weapon because they are arrogantly obsessed:

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/university-warns-against-using-oppressive-171700004.html
     
  26. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    Is there a non-Christopher Rufo link on the Southlake controversy? Not that I'm steeped in CRT incident research but the only place I've seen it referenced is here. I'd like to read up on this incident before accepting the scenario as relayed here.

    I haven't read any Kendi books but in the short-form interviews I've seen/heard him on PBS/NPR and a podcast or 2 he didn't come off as the militant he's being portrayed here. Extremist, yes but totalitarian? From my perspective he's an activist. Activists have a long history of taking more extreme positions to both get attention and with a goal of simply moving the needle of public policy in their direction. That's what I take from his Department of Anti-Racism proposal. I also concur with some of his critics that his arguments often tend to be facile.

    The reason memes hit home is because they take a thread of reality and hyperbolize it. Yes, there is absolutely more upward mobility now than medieval Europe. I'd argue that current economic policy has us moving in the wrong direction of upward mobility. "Trickle Down" economics is a farce. You need only look at the ever widening income gap as an example and that is what will be the downfall of our economic system if we don't take more aggressive stances to reconcile it.

    "Hard work" has been a mantra to my kids since a young age. As a said previously, Bill Gates maximized the advantages he was given. Of course, the advantages I'm talking about are only economic. Preston, Gates and Ellis was pivotal in Microsoft's early stages in legal fights with IBM, Apple and others. These are what I'd call systemic advantages. Bill Gates had a built-in rolodex for outstanding legal advice as well as a host of other guidance. Gate is NOT at fault but he also went to a secondary school that admitted it's first AA while he was there. These systemic advantages aren't as pronounced as they once were but still exist. I coached an AA young man in football who Dad (VP of Diversity at a large Pharm company) chose to pay for his son to go to Lakeside rather than our local public HS (which is ranked in the top 25 in the nation per USNWR). His son lasted 2 years there because as wealthy as this father was it wasn't commensurate with the Lakeside students, most of which were picked up in towncars driven by hired drivers. Meanwhile, his son was taking an hour long ride on the public bus to get to school each morning.

    You're right. Measuring oneself against Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos or Mark Zuckerberg hardly seems fair. Of course, if you were to take Bill Gates and that young boy who attended Lakeside (who was smart and a hard worker) you'd be hardpressed to win an argument that they had equal opportunity to achieve what Bill Gates achieved. This is not a slam on Bill Gate but rather the generations before him that set him up with advantages. It will be generations into the future until there are more AA versions of Bill Gates. In the entire history of the US only 2 AA have ever been CEO's of Fortune 500 companies (actually a 3rd was recently hired). Why? First, you need to recognize that AA's only make up ~14% of the population while White's are ~50-60%. So, you'd expect a much lower % of AA. Still...2-3...total since 1929, when the Fortune 500 was first introduced. A difference is that the AA community didn't have many individuals start with Bill Gate's advantages. That's changing but takes time. These are generational changes. From my perspective Kendi and others are simply tired of waiting for these generations to pass.

    Hard work is a fundamental characteristic of the American ethos. It's what makes our nation the best nation in the world. It has a ceiling though. It also can have a floor. That ceiling and floor or established for most at birth. Yes, it's possible to circumvent your limitations but that's the exception rather than the rule. If you're Donald Trump and you start with $100M then you can easily overcome a string of bankruptcies, divorces, affairs, lawsuits and become POTUS! That ceiling was unlimited despite crappy grades, questionable business ethics and rampant mysogyny. He failed up in nearly every way imaginable. If his name was DeAntrey Washington starting with nothing that ceiling is much lower and the floor is prison. That's where the prior generational wealth and advantages are still impacting minorities (and some whites) today.

    The solution is not reparations. There really isn't an easy solution. Starting with understanding our own racial biases seems to be to be a solid starting point. The move to cast any diversity training as CRT or some abhorrent mechanism towards totalitarianism or reverse racism against "whites" is not helpful, IMHO. The diversity training I've participated wasn't any "look at our views of blacks" training but rather looking at your views of anyone not like you...from your own background, from your own economic class, traditional and/or non-traditional family structures.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2021
  27. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 2,500+ Posts


    What gap would that be?

    What does that even mean?

    Hard work is not what makes our nation the best in the world. You could be the hardest working man in the world, but if your job is a laborer roofing houses, the country does not advance. You ignore the value created by hard work, which is determined by supply and demand for the type of work performed.

    Its neither an exception nor a rule. As you were shown earlier:
    Most of today's millionaires weren't born into their wealth, research shows. A study by Fidelity Investments found that 88% of millionaires are self-made millionaires. . Those who were born wealthy were more likely to cite inheritance, entrepreneurship and real estate investment appreciation as asset sources.

    That's not failure up, whatever the hell that means, that is success. Nobody fails "up".

    How does that explain Obama, Reagan, Carter, etc.? How many whites have "generational wealth"? Define "generational wealth".

    79% of millionaires in the US received no inheritance.

    What if his name is Barack Hussein?

    Why is that a solid starting point? So what if some people are biased? Are blacks biased? In the absence of bias, people are still wildly different. There are no 50 year olds playing in the NHL.

    The truth is always helpful.

    An then do what? Everyone is biased to some degree.

    There is an easy idea that is a solution, but you have to have at least an inkling of how the world works. The answer is not blaming others for your f**k-d up decisions and actions.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 26, 2021
  28. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 2,500+ Posts

    So he didn't last at a school because he was conveyed to and fro in a different manner? I don't think so.
     
  29. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 2,500+ Posts

    Because they don't choose CEOs based on skin color.
     
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  30. Vol Horn 4 Life

    Vol Horn 4 Life Good Bye To All The Rest!

    The person or people who put CEO's in place do it for one reason and one reason only. Will this person be able to lead my/our company to a better financial outcome? That's it. There are hundreds and maybe thousands of factors below that one answer, but that question is it. When someone tries to force companies to hire CEO's on skin color quotas you will see corporations start leaving this country immediately.
     
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