Post-Trump GOP

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by BrntOrngStmpeDe, Jan 25, 2021.

  1. Garmel

    Garmel 5,000+ Posts

    And being completely out of touch with reality is a foundational characteristic for most libs. See, I can do that too. :) Nowhere did I say anyone needs a vow of allegiance to Trump. That **** is what you and Deez made up in your heads.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 6, 2021
  2. BrntOrngStmpeDe

    BrntOrngStmpeDe 1,000+ Posts

    To me, the fact that voting to impeach is your qualifier as RINO is part of the problem. There are true RINOs that don't stick to conservative principals and justifiably deserve the label RINO. But the fact that you now include a vote for impeachment as a RINO-factor reinforces my point.

    I don't think Trump was right to stir up the crowd, I sure as hell don't think he was right to call out his own VP. But I also don't think impeachment was anything more than a political stunt.

    However, Trump has done many, many, many more things that were bad for team-GOP and undermined team-GOP repeatedly when he didn't get his way. So if not playing team ball for the GOP cause is now a RINO-attribute then Trump is the biggest RINO of them all.
     
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  3. Garmel

    Garmel 5,000+ Posts

    You pretty much have to be a RINO to vote for impeachment. A rational conservative doesn't go along with a political stunt like impeachment to hurt their own party when there isn't anything there.
     
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  4. utahorn

    utahorn Non-reluctant and non-bullied sponsor

    Is this stirring up a crowd to insurrection?. "I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard." Read: Former President Donald Trump's January 6 speech - CNNPolitics

    I do agree that calling out Pence was wrong and that Impeachment was nothing more than a political stunt that in the end satisfied the more left-wing members of the Democratic Party but really accomplished nothing beyond further dividing the nation. In the end, this seems to be the signature of today's Democratic Party.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021
  5. Garmel

    Garmel 5,000+ Posts

    Yeah, Pence had to do what he felt was right. I can't blame him for that.
     
  6. OUBubba

    OUBubba Reluctant and Bullied Sponsor

    I think his dereliction of duty was related to not facilitating military response. Officers were killed and some had some serious injuries. McCarthy is such a wuss for bending the knee after calling him out.
     
  7. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 2,500+ Posts

    Agree with everything you said except the above. Why should employers be involved whatsoever in health insurance benefits?

    Universal healthcare in other countries has had poor results. Advocating for universal healthcare is similar to the wonderful claims of socialism's/communism's benefits frequently declared by Libs. Sounds great in theory, but in actual observable facts, those systems show miserable results.

    That is exactly their signature. They have gone from oppressed vs. oppressor (f.k.a. bourgeoisie vs proletariat under Marxists) to identity politics, and ignoring facts and common sense. For example, "math is racist". That is the Libs way to say that competence should not be considered when grading students, or when employers hire or promote employees. Only race should be considered. Why? Because when it comes to competence, Lib voters cannot compete. For a good example of this, just look at SH stating that tax rate reductions result in less federal revenue, despite the opposite being pointed out to him on numerous occasions. In the end, you just have to realize they are actually incompetent and/or willfully ignorant.
     
  8. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 2,500+ Posts

    If it is fatal, how long do you have left?
     
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  9. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 2,500+ Posts

    Name one officer that was killed. You can't, because it didn't happen. List the serious injuries that occurred.
     
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  10. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 2,500+ Posts

    You are the last poster that should criticize others for cognitive dissonance. You have been exposed numerous times for your ignorance and falsehoods on a number of subjects, yet you continue to repeat those falsehoods and spout your ignorance.
     
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  11. X Misn Tx

    X Misn Tx 2,500+ Posts

    I'm unsure of your question in response to my point. Why SHOULD employers be involved in what their employee benefits cover?

    My point about the ACA was that it established a few items that can't be cut out by employer .

    Am I missing how we disagree?
     
  12. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    So it's ok for us to be in the party as voters, so long as politicians who think like we do don't win? Well, what if they do? What should happen to Ben Sasse or Bill Cassidy? Should they be stripped of their committee assignments? Should they be expelled from the Republican caucus in the Senate? Should they be primaried? They might be easy calls because they're from solid red states. What about Susan Collins? Do you primary her and almost guarantee giving her seat to a far more liberal Democrat? If these people are primaried, should the NRSC help their primary opponents, help them, or stay out of it?
     
  13. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    Wait a minute. Why does he get to do what he felt was right?
     
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  14. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    I'm not an advocate for universal healthcare, but I will say that if you're going to have a government-oriented system, Germany's is quite good. (It's also the least socialistic of them.) The medical providers are private, so you have a lot more choice, and getting an appointment is relatively easy. Furthermore, though most of the public has a government insurance plan, you can opt for private insurance, which some do. The quality of care is very good, and of course, it's pretty inexpensive.

    Contrast that with the UK. I have private insurance, but the system is dominated by the NHS. Of course, that means I can see a doctor without charge, but I have very little choice for a family doctor. We have a local doctor's office, which is a NHS facility. It's very convenient because it's walking distance from my house, but I'm pretty much stuck with the doctors there. There are some private specialists, but I have to be referred to them by a NHS doctor, who seems to be the gatekeeper for all care other than ER visits.

    And like a lot of government operations, the actual professional doing the work (the doctor) seems pretty competent and conscientious. However, getting through the red tape and hassle to actually see that professional is a bit of an ordeal, and during Covid, it's damn near impossible.
     
  15. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    Yep, and even this should be tempered to a point. If a politician from a solid red state or congressional district is often voting with the Democrats on important legislation, then sure, primary that guy if you can find someone who's viable and more reliable.

    However, what if we're talking about Republicans who are from blue states and districts? Is it really smart to take a big dump on a Susan Collins or a Lincoln Chafee knowing that the alternative isn't a solid conservative but a far more liberal Democrat who helps keep the GOP from controlling the Senate?

    But you don't. A guy like Cassidy or Sasse (who are pretty reliable conservatives) would disagree with you that there wasn't anything there and thinks he's helping his party.
     
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  16. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    I wouldn't do that either. Not voting to certify the election is part of the normal constitutional order. Furthermore, it's becoming routine. Pretty much every time a Republican wins the White House, somebody from the freak wing of Democratic caucus grandstands and throws a self-righteous ****-fit and opposes certifying the election. We've laughed them off and dismissed them as the self-promoting tools that they were, but nobody has tried to remove them from office for it.
     
  17. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 2,500+ Posts

    The Feds force employers to provide healthcare for employees. Employers are typically not in the business of providing healthcare for employees. They exist to make or service widgets. Providing health insurance was done on a voluntary basis until ACA. The problem is that government regulations have forced employers to do the government's work in many ways, which reduces freedoms and creates undue burdens on employers making them, and the economy, inefficient (ACA, tax collector, excessive OSHA requirements, unnecessary permits that exist only to raise government revenues, penalties for hiring illegal aliens that the government has incentivized to come to the U.S., purveyor of identity politics via inefficient minority quotas and hiring requirements, etc.). These regulations reduce transactions and make us all poorer.

    Not only have the Feds required employers to provide health insurance, they have mandated what product they must buy. As you stated, they have to buy plans that cover existing conditions, but they cannot determine if those existing conditions are present before hiring an employee. That decreases their "margins" and makes them inefficient. That is not health insurance.

    Anytime a government entity mandates or regulates, it means that the free market had previously decided such regulation or mandate was not in their interests, and/or that the issue would eventually be corrected via competition in the marketplace. Some regulations are based on values accepted by the vast majority of citizens, such as criminal penalties for murder, and some regulations are based on values accepted by a slim majority, such as the ACA. The regulations enacted by a slim majority create the most problems. If the ACA were worth a damn, the government would not have outright lied about it to the American people before enactment, and it would have passed on a bipartisan vote.

    Bottom line, who are you to even think you know what a company's margins are and what they should be?
     
  18. Garmel

    Garmel 5,000+ Posts

    Should be primaried. Some of them like Collins we might have to make exceptions for. However, there's no need for RINOs in red states.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021
  19. Garmel

    Garmel 5,000+ Posts

    Poor wording on my part. I'm using "felt" and "thought" interchangeability which probably doesn't work here . The law wasn't clear here and he had to take a route he thought was the best.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021
  20. Garmel

    Garmel 5,000+ Posts

    There wasn't anything there. It was more an emotional than logical thought process. Eveyone there except for possibly Cassidy showed their dislike for the president in the past. More TDS than anything else. It's stupid, Deez and destructive.

    Sasse said that Trump flirts with white supremacists. That's as stupid and RINO as you can get. The guy whored himself to get Trump's support then turned on him. If Trump was such a reprobate why ask for his support? He's an opportunist.

    I listened to Cassidy's explanation for voting against Trump. Just "mah feewings" crap instead of legal justification. You don't impeach a president just because you don't like how he handled something.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021
  21. X Misn Tx

    X Misn Tx 2,500+ Posts

    Ok I'm with you now.

    What you just described would also be true about work place safety protocols. We know that before the feds established safety regulations that many companies were fine with employee injuries and deaths. When an economy is down, unemployment is up, companies don't have to worry about employee safety. Next man up...

    There have to be some regulations that force industry to remember that their employees are humans and US citizens. It's about minimizing those regulations to the basics. Imo preexisting conditions is one of those.
     
  22. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 2,500+ Posts

    If you want to cover pre existing conditions, it would actually be better to use a government program (uggghhh) instead of forcing individual employers to pay for those insurance costs. I would eliminate that coverage for folks that could have bought insurance before contracting their condition, but failed to do so. We should not reward those being irresponsible. Your arrogance requiring that all employers pay for that coverage is pretty impressive. You feel as though your decisions should be foisted on all businesses, which is the same as the government deciding they know best instead of letting millions of people make their own decisions.

    We can look back in history and find many bad examples for human behavior. That goes for workplace injuries as well as governments killing hundreds of millions of people. Things have changed since the turn of the 20th century. I'm not as impressed with the government as you are. In society today, it is extremely difficult to stay in business when your company's workplace injury record is poor. You will either get sued out of business, or go broke paying for work comp. There is a loophole, which I certainly agree should be fixed, but it only applies to very small employers and closing it would put many out of business.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021
  23. Monahorns

    Monahorns 5,000+ Posts

    There is history looking more deeply into this era showing that most of what you state here is mythology created by the Progressives. They had to create a boogeyman to slay.

    What I have read is that industry was already moving that way to make things more safe. Then the Progressives moved in to legislate and take credit. That is a theme with government, see improvements or developments made by private groups, then take over the movement and claim they were protecting people from industry. They really just coopted what industry was already doing.
     
  24. OUBubba

    OUBubba Reluctant and Bullied Sponsor

    Such an ideologue. Pre-existing conditions is a huge thing that was a large problem before this.
     
  25. Monahorns

    Monahorns 5,000+ Posts

    I'm not talking about insurance and I didn't discuss ideology. Not sure what you are trying to say.
     
  26. Monahorns

    Monahorns 5,000+ Posts

  27. OUBubba

    OUBubba Reluctant and Bullied Sponsor

    You were responding to a post that discussed that something good (humane) came from the ACA even if he disagreed with it in general. At least that was my interpretation of the physician's comments. You are an ideologue in that you'll cut off your nose, to spite your face if it will allow you to own said libs.
     
  28. Monahorns

    Monahorns 5,000+ Posts

    I was talking strictly about work safety protocols Bubba not the ACA. I am not making any comment about the ACA. Get up to speed.
     
  29. BrntOrngStmpeDe

    BrntOrngStmpeDe 1,000+ Posts

    Chump is going after Murkowski now. Like I said above, he won't try to win a seat back from a Dem. He's going after the easy win primary battles and then we'll end up losing the seat overall. Murkowski may not be the most conservative but she has voted with the GOP most of the time. As we are seeing with this current Senate, having the majority matters. We just lost a battle over the ridiculous stimulus bill because of Chump. Chump lost that for us with his narcissism. Now he's going to screw it up even more.
     
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  30. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 2,500+ Posts

    In addition to not being able to keep up with the argument being made, you also ignore the bad results that came with the "humane" result of requiring employers/insurers to cover pre-existing conditions. Ignoring the other side of an equation is a huge flaw prevalent with libs like yourself.
     

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