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Discussion in 'West Mall' started by 2003TexasGrad, Jan 9, 2021.
How is it different?
Yeah it is. Remember Trump negotiated withdrawal with the Taliban directly.
There quick take over also shows that the puppet government we built wasn't standing on anything other than our money and military. The choice was either to rule Afghanistan as the 51st state or let the Taliban rule it. Out of two bad choices we took the one that is much less bad for Americans.
Lol!! Yeah, negotiating with the Taliban is very meaningful. Maybe if we had negotiated with al Qaeda, they only would have taken out one of the Twin Towers.
Or you can let Taliban take over a whole country and see what happens from that. Should be interesting.
CNN actually writes something negative about Biden. Link. Literally haven't seen anything like this from them in years.
This (above) is what losing looks like
Biden single handily lost the Afghanistan War in less than one month. He is looking like Jimmy Carter more and more each day.
You raise a good point, theiioftx. Carter was certainly ineffective as POTUS - he was horrible with the economy, and the Iranian hostage situation was a major embarrassment. In retrospect, I would assess Jimmy Carter as a well-intentioned, honorable man who was in a job that he couldn't handle. I can't say the same about Biden's honor and intentions - he seems to have sold out to the radical left. But he also can't handle the job.
I hope to see another similarity between Carter and Biden - Carter's ineffectiveness led to a landslide for the GOP in the next election. Hope the GOP wins big in the next election.
They didn't limit themselves to just one negative piece. Opinion:The worst speech of Biden's presidency - CNN
Looks like the drive-by media is ready for queen QueMala.
As nutty as Kamala is, this doesn't surprise me. They will start making Biden look unfit for office and will start making arguments to remove him, even if it means having Kackles as POTUS.
Think of all the "Historic" headlines and drooling they can generate. Translation: ratings and money.
Hic, "Nutty" doesn't begin to describe Kamala. She is beyond nutty - other descriptors come to mind - such as "fiendish," "underhanded," and "radical," just to name a few.
This is why when Biden or Democrats laugh about citizens having ARs to defend against a tyrannical government they are really scares inside. If the Soviets and the US can't stamp out a bunch of dudes in the desert, what makes them think they will stamp out millions of armed Americans?
Yes. I have always thought that the main impediment would be the fact that they'd actually have to kill American citizens instead of just rounding them up in the middle of the night.
There is no questioning Jimmy Carter is a great human being. He was terrible as a POTUS, but I think he is a honorable man.
Agreed. Not willing to label slowjoe that way. He is a swamp monster, and corrupt as sin.
I don't get your mocking this. I merely said this is the withdrawal that Trump essentially negotiated. The US leaves and the Taliban takes over. Laugh at facts all you want.
Then you attach something that isn't really related. The Taliban does talk and negotiate with foreign governments. Did you know the US government was discussing Al Qaeda in Afghanistan before starting the war there? There were some negotiations going on, that then stopped of course. You would be surprised to learn how willing they were to listen, but that doesn't fit your narrative.
Al Qaeda doesn't negotiate. They are 2 separate entities. But you had to add them into the conversation to make a nonexistent point.
Give me a break. We haven't really won anything there. We took over militarily sure. But if that is how you want to win then you have to occupy them indefinitely. That is huge drain on money and sons that Americans shouldn't have to pay. And yes, he was already like Carter. Presidents since him have all involved themselves in ME affairs at the cost to Americans. Getting out of Afghanistan actually makes Biden a little different.
So, what nation started intervening in the others affairs between the two?
Some very stupid assumptions are being made about Afghanistan that led to this move. They're all false.
1. We are losing a lot of servicemen in Afghanistan. The reality is that we haven't lost more than 20 in a year since 2019, haven't lost more than 100 since 2013, and haven't lost a single US troop to combat in 18 months. This was never a high-casualty operation and has been an extremely low to almost nonexistent casualty operation for several years.
2. We have a massive troop presence in Afghanistan. The reality is that we have about 2,500-3,000. That isn't a lot.
3. Withdrawing will save a ton of money. It won't. I think a lot of people envision assloads of troops coming home, leaving the military and going back to work and ships and aircraft being scrapped like we saw after WWII. It's nothing like that. These are professional soldiers. They will go back to their bases and likely redeploy somewhere else. The overwhelming majority will still be on the government payroll. I'm not saying we'll save no money, but it will be negligible. The aircraft, tanks, and equipment will be transported back to home bases mostly in the US, Germany, Italy, and Japan, where they'll have to be serviced and maintained just as they were in Afghanistan.
4. Our presence isn't doing any good. Not true. Even a small 2,500 troop presence is sufficient to keep the Taliban at bay. Why? Because they are excellent at what they do and because their presence is a deterrence. If the Taliban launched a big offensive, we could easily send thousands more, which is why the Taliban hasn't done much in the last few years - until we became stupid enough to give up for no reason.
5. By leaving, we're just going to let them kill each other. Really? How'd that work out in the '90s? The Taliban let the country become a terror haven, and they enabled terror attacks all over the world before we put one troop on the ground in Afghanistan. It'll happen again, and within a few years, we'll be back in Afghanistan (like we had to come back to Iraq) cleaning up after the f**k-up we're committing now.
And we can piss on Biden all we want. That's fine. He's the POTUS, and it's his screw-up, but we were heading that way under Trump. He wouldn't have done any better.
I don't mock the facts. Trump did negotiate with the Taliban. What I mock is the idea that we would rely upon any kind of negotiation with the Taliban. And yes, they are two separate entities on paper, but they're separate like the Communist Party was separate from the Soviet government. The Taliban was the state actor that empowered and enabled al Qaeda to function unfettered. They're bad hombres, and there is absolutely no serious reason to play ball with them or give them an inch, especially as things stood before our unforced, dumbass error.
1984 is here. Somebody please tell me this is a photoshopped joke.
Friend who has sources in military says this is real.
Just like dem party stoked BLM in 2020 to keep the black vote in line, dem party is pushing this to distract from their failures at the border, covid, and inflation
Then pay your own effing money and send your own effing sons and daughters and siblings. I don't want my family killed on the other side of the world just so a Muslim country isn't ruled by a Muslim group.
And of course, it's "religious" holidays. It's no more likely to be Muslims than Quakers or Mormons.
4. But who would the Taliban launch an offensive against? Their own citizens? Herdsmen? No. Against foreign occupiers. The point is just to keep the Taliban from coming to power? The US is really justified to force a sock puppet government on a country that obviously doesn't want it? Poor logic and poor morals.
5. How many terrorists planned their attacks in Afghanistan? They didn't in the 90s. Those terrorists were trained in Europe and the US and the plots were planned in the same place. We didn't go back to Iraq to clean up terrorist activity in the US though. Nothing going on in Iraq was threatening Americans. We went back to Iraq because of the mess we made by deposing the Baathist party and didn't like the level of influence Iran was having there.
Tell that to the families who lost loved ones on 9/11 or on the USS Cole.
That's complete and utter bull-sh..i..t. Al Qaeda didn't plan attacks in Afghanistan. And they weren't even in an area of Afghanistan where the Taliban had much reach up in the mountains. They simply crossed the border into Pakistan, who harbored Bin Laden until he was dead. But by your logic we should have also taken out the Pakistani government occupied indefinitely too.
They are bad. They are really bad. No one is saying otherwise. But do you know what the people who ran the sock puppet US government were doing? They and the tribes we backed are notorious for raping boys over and over again and pouring boiling water on their own daughters because they hate women. Those are/were our allies. They are also really bad people, and we made ourselves look bad by putting them in power. It's one reason it has been so easy for the Taliban to take back over. The people didn't like the US backed government.
Again very poor logic. No one who killed those Americans lives in Afghanistan. None were of the Taliban. Bin Laden's dead. Your argument is basically the US should control wherever they want because some Muslim radicals killed Americans at some point in time. That's tyranny and injustice. Any justice that those families deserved has already been done.
Well, they'll probably do what they did before. They'll create a safe haven for terror groups who will launch attacks on whomever they want.
The point is to keep the people who enable and provide safe harbor to terrorists from having state power. And we've done that for a long time for very little cost in money or blood. Very stupid to undo all that.
Uh, they provided safe haven for Osama bin Laden (and others) - the planner, leader, and financier of the operations. I don't particularly care if Muhammad Atta didn't learn to fly there.
This has nothing to do with Iraq. Who cares about Iraq?