President Biden Accountability Thread

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by 2003TexasGrad, Jan 9, 2021.

  1. Monahorns

    Monahorns 5,000+ Posts

    The best thing about getting out of Afghanistan is that the government will cut spending by $100-200/day. That's substantial for one line item.

    The true tax isn't the actual $ taxed. It is government spending. They will get that money out of you one of three ways. Taxes. Borrowing, which is tomorrow's tax. Creating more dollars out of thin air, that is a secret tax, which makes your money worth less.

    Plus, the reason why there hadn't been much violence in Afghanistan for a couple of years is because Trump negotiated a cease fire on the condition that the US left on May 1, 2021. The snafu we are seeing is not due to mis-planning but pulling out late. We went back on our word. That should be embarrassing. Some here have claimed Taliban isn't trustworthy. I can't argue that they are, but the US has proven they aren't either.

    If we go back, win or lose, many more sons will die, many more billions will be spent. Then at some point the US will leave, and the Taliban will be back in power because they have legitimacy there. The US backed Afghani state had no legitimacy in the eyes of the people and won't 30 years from now. It's either get out now or get out after costing the American people much more.
     
  2. mchammer

    mchammer 10,000+ Posts

    Person on record said Biden screwed it up. Of course the media will ignore this while completely trusting anonymous folks who lie about Trump.

    I ran Trump's Afghan withdrawal — Biden's attempt to blame us is sad
     
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  3. Monahorns

    Monahorns 5,000+ Posts

    mchammer, all Trump had to do to evacuate better was to abide by his agreement. As long as he did that it wouldn't have been such an embarrassment.
     
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  4. 2003TexasGrad

    2003TexasGrad OSU Game Prediction Champion

    Be that as it may, Biden has allowed hundreds of thousands of people to flood the US for free. He's screwed any sense of legality over that alone.
     
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  5. utahorn

    utahorn 100+ Posts

    From Kash Patel, former Chief of Staff at the Pentagon - "Trump instructed me to arrange a conditions-based, methodical exit plan that would preserve the national interest. The plan ended up being fairly simple: The Afghan government and the Taliban were both told they would face the full force of the US military if they caused any harm to Americans or American interests in Afghanistan."....."When all those conditions were met — along with other cascading conditions — then a withdrawal could, and did, begin."....."We successfully executed this plan until Jan. 20, 2021. "....."We handed our entire plan to the incoming Biden administration during the lengthy transition. The new team simply wasn’t interested.

    Everything changed when the new commander in chief declared that US forces would leave Afghanistan by Sept. 11, 2021, pushing back the Trump administration’s timetable by four months."

    Is Mr. Patel lying?

    Now we have video of Millions, maybe Billions of first-line US military equipment in the hands of the Taliban. Where is that going? China, Russia, Iran, North Korea?

    This was a colossal screw-up by the Current Administration, Sec Def and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, to name a few. It used to be called Gross Misconduct/ Gross Dereliction of Duty, etc. Where is the UCMJ when it comes to Gen. Milley? We have heard that no one is above the law.

    How is this on Trump?

    I think the best question is "Why were we in Afghanistan for 20 years"? It's an honest question. How did those 20 years of sacrifice serve US National and Strategic interests and how did it benefit the American people?
     
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    Last edited: Aug 21, 2021
  6. Monahorns

    Monahorns 5,000+ Posts

    utahorn, I can't tell if you are agreeing or disagreeing with my quote, but the information more or less agrees.

    This is basically what I was saying. The timetable was big for the Taliban, and it should be. That was the US's word. That was the bond. "We" didn't live up to it. If the US would have stuck to the agreement all these citizens could have been flown out before it hit the fan.
     
  7. utahorn

    utahorn 100+ Posts

    Monahorns - The way I read your post was that this New Saigon (my term) was on President Trump. The Word of the United States of America should be unbreakable. I still do not believe that President Trump abandoned Afghanistan. While he did have a plan to leave, he did not break his word and his plan was not carried through with the Biden Administration.

    If I misread your post, it's on me, as I've read and watched multiple sources and it looks Trumps plan was to finally get our government civilians, Afghan translators and Support Staff, and our military out of that hell hole. In that order.

    Afghanistan has the moniker of "Where Empires go to Die". Sadly, it is richly deserved.

    Why would any leader of the US want to follow that path? Get in, Execute the Mission, Get Out.

    I've always enjoyed your posts and have visited your website (which I have also enjoyed). Agree to Disagree.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 21, 2021
  8. Monahorns

    Monahorns 5,000+ Posts

    I wasn't blaming Trump. I was blaming Biden. He had an easy path. Just follow through with Trump's plan, and it would have been a lot cleaner.
     
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  9. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    My guess is that the federal agency probably has some discretion, but I'm sure there's some criteria for it. It's probably not an ability to arbitrarily waive fees.

    It looks bad right now, and I'd be open to amending it. However, I understand the point. The federal government doesn't want people to run off to war zones and dangerous areas willy-nilly and just expect and rely upon the taxpayer to rescue them if things go badly.

    Keep in mind that we're not talking about Americans (military and civilian personnel) who are there on official business (meaning with travel orders). We're talking about private citizens who happen to be hanging out in Afghanistan for whatever reason.
     
  10. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    He did screw this up. Biden could have completely reversed course and left troops in Afghanistan. Biden could have withdrawn but imposed other conditions. Biden could have withdrawn unconditionally but planned it a little better than most people plan out scratching their nuts. There was no formal treaty or federal law requiring any of this. It was pure presidential discretion. That's why Biden's attempts to blame Trump for this are ********. However, that is entirely separate issue from what Trump would have done had he remained president.

    Trump people are all over the map. Link. Again, I can't imagine him doing it worse, but we have no idea if he would have done it better. It might be the sloppiest troop withdrawal and biggest unforced error in the foreign policy realm I've ever seen.
     
  11. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    It denied al Qaeda a safe haven from which they could build training camps and organize major terror attacks on the United States and its allies. Personally, I kinda like that there haven't been any major terror attacks on the United States since 9/11.

    Will the Taliban now truly disassociate itself from terrorists who attack the West? I hope they do, but that doesn't seem to go with their ideology. Frankly, I'm not a fan of relying on that especially when the cost of being there was relatively small in terms of money and casualties.
     
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  12. humahuma

    humahuma 500+ Posts

    Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin contradicted President Biden on Friday, telling House lawmakers on a phone call that multiple Americans trying to reach the Kabul airport have been beaten by Taliban fighters, two lawmakers told Fox News.
     
    • WTF? WTF? x 2
  13. WorsterMan

    WorsterMan 10,000+ Posts

    This is what I feared the day Bush announced we were going in there....9-11 retribution, eliminate AQ threat, etc.
     
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  14. WorsterMan

    WorsterMan 10,000+ Posts

    You nailed it Deez!
     
  15. utahorn

    utahorn 100+ Posts

    I respectfully disagree. In 2001, Libya was still a viable option as was Pakistan, despite their denials, as well as other countries on other continents. Hello Africa.

    No country can be the World's police.
     
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  16. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    • Agree Agree x 3
  17. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    Pakistan, Libya, and most of Africa were too integrated with the West to be good options for al Qaeda. I'm not saying they had no activities in those places. They certainly did. They even had activities in the United States and in Germany. However, there are reasons why Bin Laden chose to base Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. For starters, he had a history there with the mujahideen during the war with the Soviet Union, so he had a lot contacts there and was familiar with the country, its culture, and its people. In addition, unlike the countries you mentioned, Afghanistan was largely isolated from the West, and its regime was uniquely sympathetic to his cause. That meant he could operate basically in the open with the full protection and cooperation of the state. He didn't have to worry about the United States or EU greasing some dictator's palm to arrest him and extradite him. He would have almost anywhere else to varying degrees.

    No, but if a regime harbors a group that murders 3,000 Americans, destroyed the World Trade Center, and tried to destroy the US Capitol, we're not acting like the world's police to stop that group from having state power again. We're just making a reasonable effort to keep it from happening again.

    Keep in mind that the Allies destroyed Nazi Germany in 1945, but we still maintain a military presence there. It's a fraction of what it used to be, but it's still about ten times bigger than what we had in Afghanistan. No reason why we couldn't have kept it there. It wasn't particularly expensive, and our troops were safer than your average Chicago cop.
     
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  18. Horn2RunAgain

    Horn2RunAgain 1,000+ Posts

    This is...chaos

    >>
    Americans in Afghanistan were told Saturday not to go to the airport in Kabul to evacuate unless they receive a specific message to do so.

    “Because of potential security threats outside the gates at the Kabul airport, we are advising U.S. citizens to avoid traveling to the airport and to avoid airport gates at this time unless you receive individual instructions from a U.S. government representative to do so,” the U.S. Embassy in Afghanistan said in an alert.

    Pentagon officials in Washington declined to elaborate on the potential threats.


    US Tells Americans to Avoid Traveling to Kabul Airport Because of 'Potential Security Threats'
     
    • WTF? WTF? x 3
  19. Horn2RunAgain

    Horn2RunAgain 1,000+ Posts

  20. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    This chit is NOT Biden directed.
    Who with the power to Charley Foxtrot this is doing this?
    This is not ineptness,
     
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  21. 2003TexasGrad

    2003TexasGrad OSU Game Prediction Champion

    It almost seems impossible to have occurred out of ineptitude. Our leaders are too experienced to have just let this happen out of ineptness.
     
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  22. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    More CF
    The State Dept confirmed to Newsweek that it had sent out THOUSANDS of bogus visas to Americans. Funny tho State says they do not know how many Americans there are or how to contact them. Uh maybe check your mailing list for a start.
    But it gets worse. State also sent to SIV( Special Immigrant Visas)
    EXCEPT there was no name serial or bar code to authenticate the visas.
    Maybe State had a plan
    But those blank visas have been copied in the thousands.
    We have no idea who the nearly 20k Afghans who got in our planes really are.
     
    • WTF? WTF? x 3
  23. mchammer

    mchammer 10,000+ Posts

    Future voters in GA and AZ.
     
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  24. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    mc
    I'd :lmao: but sadly that is the truth
     
  25. Monahorns

    Monahorns 5,000+ Posts

    Of course the US government also gave haven to Al Qaeda in Western Iraq and Eastern Syria when we gave them arms and money and pointed them at Assad.

    This is why that point is so meaningless. Al Qaeda had base camp for the last 20 years all over the world. So treating Afghanistan as if it was the only important area is ludicrous. If the US government was really that focused on Al Qaeda they would have invaded Pakistan. Hell they would have killed Bin Laden in Tora Bora before he crossed the border. But that wasn't what was important to them.

    $200 millions/day! That's small money to you? That's completely insane. And the violence ended when Trump negotiated peace with the Taliban.

    And you completely ignore the facts that the Taliban didn't agree with what Al Qaeda did on 9/11 and were willing to work with the US to take them out.
     
  26. Monahorns

    Monahorns 5,000+ Posts

    Thank you utahorn.
     
  27. Monahorns

    Monahorns 5,000+ Posts

    Completely and absolutely false. The Taliban was willing to do just that but wanted some evidence. They are strict Islamiscists and had to follow their laws. If the US would have supplied evidence, they would have gone along. It was a reasonable request.
     
  28. Monahorns

    Monahorns 5,000+ Posts

    If that was the whole point of US military action in Afghanistan, Bin Laden would have been dead before 2002 started. But the US sat on intel about where he was, then let him go to Pakistan, then let him sit in Pakistan for 10 years. Pakistan didn't work that closely with the US either, but their regime wasn't overthrown. They were harboring Al Qaeda as much as Afghanistan ever did. The difference was that the Taliban did it before they murdered Americans. Pakistan did it after they murdered Americans. That's way worse in my book. That shows that the narrative that we were in Afghanistan because they harbored terrorists was a lie. Total lie.
     
  29. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    A comment of political import...


    There was no legal reason for us to leave Afghanistan and leave behind billions of dollars of our military hardware, now in the hands of our enemy. That was a choice made by the people in command now. If you can overturn executive orders the first day or two of office then this withdrawal could have been delayed until all plans were made to protect our citizens over there, our soldiers and our military hardware, not to mention the women of Afghanistan who will now be oppressed far beyond our imagination of evil.

    But there appears to have been no plans.

    Don't be fooled by your party affiliations. Don't deny because of your party affiliations. Just look at what happened and be honest with yourself. Ask yourself what is it that you really are about? Are you about corrupt fools in office or are you about a common set of human values that crosses all lines and protects no man who violates them.

    Nobody tells the United States what to do. We did not have a treaty with another nation (The Treaty Clause, a part of Article II, Section 2, Clause 2 of the United States Constitution) that made it binding as federal law. This was with the Taliban. They are a rogue of evil (the polar opposite of every value held dear by Liberals) terrorists who do not represent a state at all. They have no legal standing in the civilized world. And yet we left suddenly and we all saw what happened. That was a foreign policy decision made by the current Administration and nobody else. They didn't have to leave. At least not now.

    If they can make all the changes they made concerning our immigration policies that were enacted by our former president then they could have stayed and made sure that everything was considered.

    But they didn't do that.

    No they didn't.

    This is not something that will just blow away. This is about the foreign policy and decision-making skills of people in power.

    That's who they are.

    That's what they did.
     
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  30. Horn2RunAgain

    Horn2RunAgain 1,000+ Posts

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    Last edited: Aug 22, 2021

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