Probable overturning of Roe v Wade

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by VYFan, May 2, 2022.

  1. mb227

    mb227 5,000+ Posts

    It is quite telling that the MSM has buried the Amit Jain story...he is the one widely believed to have been the source of the leak. It COULD be pure coincidence that he was cited in an article by the Politico writer who ALSO happened to be the one who published the leak, but there is more smoke than a southern California wildfire.
     
  2. bystander

    bystander 10,000+ Posts

    How about sticking to SAFE SEX and maybe not get knocked up? The problem is Liberals know they can't control people's violence or sex habits. So instead they blame others and ensure their stupid mistakes and habits are enabled.

    But that being said, I can't see banning it completely. I just HATE the sanctimony and viciousness of organizations like NOW.
     
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  3. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    At least 60%of PP's patients get care through Medicaid and Title X
    No direct fed funds but kinda 60% defacto
     
  4. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    Agree. There are some crackpots who make it an issue, but it's fringe. Nobody's going to ban birth control, and it shouldn't even be brought up.

    Unconstitutional in both directions. The State of Texas has a right to stop abortions before 20 weeks, and California has a right to allow them past 20 weeks. It's a state issue, and the busybodies on both sides that want federal laws need to find a hobby.
     
  5. bystander

    bystander 10,000+ Posts

    I have a hobby. It's called Hornfans! Ha... actually I do have a life.

    But but but... I just don't like the idea of a state completely banning it; that's why I think someone needs to intervene...
     
  6. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    by
    I have only seen a state rep in Idaho say he would "Consider" a discussion on it IN committee
    One State rep that said he would consider it. NOT that it would be in a bill sent to the Idaho lege
    Contrast that with people calling for abortion even in labor.
     
  7. bystander

    bystander 10,000+ Posts

    I hear you but I didn't think we'd ever get to this monumental stage with Roe v Wade. I thought it was a done deal. The zealots have a way of beating the drum and getting what they want. They will work a lifetime to do it.

    I just wanted to get my feelings on the matter out there regardless of how fringe the anti-contraceptive nut-jobs really are.
     
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  8. OUBubba

    OUBubba Reluctant and Bullied Sponsor

    Had this leak happened before the WSJ story about there being worries that some conservative justice(s) were leaning left on Roe, I might agree. It looks way more like a leak to let the people of the right hear about justices wobbling. This thing has been around since the winter olympics for the left to leak.
     
  9. guy4321

    guy4321 250+ Posts

    Democrats are like Wile E. Coyote. They create a plan, they are clearly well funded, but the plan blows up in their faces during the execution. Here they are on the planning stage. They know zero abortion related federal legislation will pass in 2022. So how can they use that to their advantage? The plan requires Collins and Murkowski to vote no so the Dems made something so outlandish that both did just that. Why? So Democrats can campaign with the slogan "ALL Republican Senators are against abortion rights!" The claim "96% of Republication Senators are against abortion rights!" doesn't have the same ring to it.

    Manchin voting no made it even better so it's not a 50-50 tie. Hell, Schumer probably hold him to vote against it that way they can get straight onto the campaigning.

    Now you're thinking, "But this is radical not just equivalent to Roe v Wade." You know that, I know that, and the Dems know that. But you know who won't? The average American because the Dems control the media. We can see that with the AP tweet here:



    This is where the well funded part comes into play. Each major newspaper and TV channel will recite that verbatim enraging the left and some of the middle.

    All that leaves is the execution. While I can't see into the November 2022 elections, I suspect it will backfire when voters state that the tanking economy and inflation are more of a concern than abortion.
     
  10. mchammer

    mchammer 10,000+ Posts

  11. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    If you don't like the idea of a state banning it, then vote for politicians who won't ban it. The idea that there would be an authority to "intervene" should scare you more than an abortion ban would. You can't have the rule of law and support such an intervention.

    And again, I'm consistent on this. I don't like the idea of California and other states being so callous to permit abortion so late. I think it's absolutely sick, and I view abortion as the biggest moral stain on this country. However, I don't live in those states. I can stand by and say how wrong they are, but it's not my place to say someone without constitutional authority should intervene and deny them the right to make the decision for their own states.
     
  12. bystander

    bystander 10,000+ Posts

    I get the theory of voting for my representative. But this state is dominated by Abbott and his minions. I would have to vote for Beto and hope other's wishing to legalize abortion in Texas would rise to the occasion. We have some real extremes here and that is why the Feds need to step in at times. I don't know if that theory is constitutional but for me, we have awful choices for leaders.
     
  13. theiioftx

    theiioftx Sponsor Deputy

    Move to California.
     
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  14. BrntOrngStmpeDe

    BrntOrngStmpeDe 1,000+ Posts

    true. there are very few calling for a total ban, and even fewer calling for a ban on contraceptives. But even saying "i'll consider it" is giving the left their soundbites to rev the engines. It is very much like when Beto says "hell yes, let's take their guns". The abortion debate is not a new one. if you are a politician and still have to "think about it" maybe you should find a new job.
     
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  15. BrntOrngStmpeDe

    BrntOrngStmpeDe 1,000+ Posts

    I would suggest they do know this but Dem's, even more than GOP, play to the media landscape. They know that whatever action or inaction they take, it will either be magnified (if it helps) or downplayed (if it hurts them) in the media. They know that most media is currently in their pocket and will squash unfavorable outcomes and help the Dem's try to corner the GOP in the public domain. For them, giving the media clickbait is all that is required.
     
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  16. bystander

    bystander 10,000+ Posts

    I've been here since 1970 and Abbott is out of control. I shouldn't have to move. My entire life is here now. I will look for alternatives.

    You see, I don't want Beto either. Where is the balance? Jesus...
     
  17. theiioftx

    theiioftx Sponsor Deputy

    I was just kidding. But honestly, we live in three different countries politically. Unfortunately, not sure which states falls in "independent" land.
     
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  18. bystander

    bystander 10,000+ Posts

    Need to get my humor meter checked!

    We do need rational people. I'm a Democrat. And as I've said before, that means I'm about the Constitution which means I'm not a big fan of gun control, limitations on free speech or religious zealots taking over.
     
  19. mb227

    mb227 5,000+ Posts

    Rational Land is also known as the flyover States...yeah, they get their occasional wingnut group, but as a collective, they tend to be pretty level-headed.
     
  20. OUBubba

    OUBubba Reluctant and Bullied Sponsor

    An interesting article. It indicates that attitudes on abortion are fairly static over the last 50 years while other social concerns have shifted significantly. The Abortion Policy Most Americans Want
     
  21. OUBubba

    OUBubba Reluctant and Bullied Sponsor

    I always considered Oklahoma a flyover state. I would not call us rational. I'm sure I can get an "Amen!" from the gallery.
     
  22. theiioftx

    theiioftx Sponsor Deputy

    TSA will not allow planes to fly over Oklahoma. Too risky as the suckage might pull them out of the sky.
     
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  23. guy4321

    guy4321 250+ Posts

    Is that a state that roughly alternates between D and R governors? That's leading me to something like Wisconsin or Ohio...
     
  24. OUBubba

    OUBubba Reluctant and Bullied Sponsor

    mb227 should be here learning you about the difference in federal and state programs. Medicaid in states like Oklahoma and Texas will not pay for abortions except for in cases of rape and incest. California? That would be different. Title X is a federal program and is banned from paying for abortions in any way.

    I know this in Oklahoma because almost 20 years ago I ran across an abortion that a famous pro life doc had done following an ER visit to save a girls life that they were trying to find a program to pay but Oklahoma wouldn’t pay for it.
     
  25. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    6 million conservatives in California and 3 million in New York feel your pain. They are watching their own states run off in a direction that they strongly disagree with on pretty much every major issue and very often to wild extremes. I sympathize with them on a personal level. However, the Feds stepping in breaks the system if they don't have very clear and explicit constitutional authority to do so. It denies states the ability to set their own course that the founding fathers deemed important, destroys the rule of law, and ultimately invites civil war and dissolution.

    If you don't like what your state is doing on something when there isn't a clear and explicit federal role (which is about 98 percent of issues including abortion), the appropriate thing to do is to get politically involved and fight for your position. If you lose, you try to persuade others on the merits that they're wrong, and they can try to do the same with you.

    If you reach an impasse and can't get the state to do what you want and can't be persuaded on your own, then you have to decide if the upsides of your state exceed the downsides. If they do, then you overlook the downsides and remain. If they don't, then you move to a state that agrees with you or at least gives you a better balance.

    The willingness of citizens to follow this path is essential and fundamental to preserving the rule of law and the federal union. Every time we violate it, we weaken it and will eventually ruin it. And like I said, I'm consistent. I may be condemning your call for the Feds to force your will, but I just as strongly condemn calls for a federal abortion ban. That is ridiculous and dangerous.
     
  26. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    Interesting data. Of course, since it's the Atlantic, the author had to close with the obligatory and frankly irrelevant "Republicans and pro-lifers are evil" and "abortion is just a medical procedure that the public should have no say in" garbage so that no one would confuse him for being pro-life or even just moderately pro-choice, but I understand that he's catering to an audience of radical feminist chicks and the Jeffrey Toobins who want to screw them and not have to worry about child support if they impregnate them.

    Either way, his data isn't surprising. People lump abortion in with other social and cultural issues of the last 100 years, but it's very different. The reason why is two-fold.

    First, on most issues on which public opinion has shifted, there has been a reasonably solid libertarian argument. I may personally oppose gay marriage, but if gays want to marry, the impact beyond them is at most very remote. It's probably even more true of interracial marriage and at least generally true of pot legalization. It's a lot easier to get people to back down on something when it doesn't seemingly harm anyone. Abortion never fit a libertarian perspective very well. At least at some point in pregnancy, an interest beyond the mother's is relevant and in a very profound way. No serious adult doesn't see that.

    Second, the way in which gay marriage and especially interracial marriage have been legalized has more legitimacy, and that blunts the opposition. It's easier to accept defeat if the other side didn't cheat. Both came by court order, but there actually is a requirement of equal protection of the law that at least reasonably covers those issues. I've explained why banning gay marriage doesn't deny equal protection, but the argument that it does isn't overt ********. It has merit. Roe is a product of raw, extra-constitutional, judicial power - pure and simple. It was completely unsupported by the law and was therefore tyrannical and illegitimate. It's harder for opposition to accept defeat when it loses that way. It's going to dig in rather than seek compromise.
     
  27. theiioftx

    theiioftx Sponsor Deputy

    People are moving to states that meet their political and economic needs. I wouldn’t move back to Texas due to the high property taxes. I have property there that has been in my family for over 120 years that I will always keep, but until property taxes are lowered I will remain in Tennessee. George Strait should sing a song about it.
     
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  28. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    Texas' obsession with avoiding an income tax and raising the sales tax coupled with a refusal to make school districts and municipalities hold the line on spending means the money has to come from somewhere. Property taxes are the easy target.
     
  29. theiioftx

    theiioftx Sponsor Deputy

    Sales tax is higher in Tennessee but everyone pays it. Property taxes are less than half of Texas even with recent major increases in Nashville. And Tennessee never runs a deficit and has a rainy day fund. Liberal cities like Nashville are way under water though.
     
  30. Vol Horn 4 Life

    Vol Horn 4 Life 5,000+ Posts

    Sales tax hikes are the way to go. So many tourists will foot the bill here vs it all shifting to me. I'd rather pay $400 more a month in property taxes (which is what I pay now vs when I built my house 18 yrs ago) than $1,000 a month or more in a state income tax. If we added an income tax my property values would still go up meaning taxes go up anyway so I'd be double screwed.
     

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