Protecting our 1st Amendment Rights

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by Phil Elliott, May 22, 2020.

  1. Phil Elliott

    Phil Elliott 2,500+ Posts

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  2. LongestHorn

    LongestHorn 1,000+ Posts

     
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  3. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    Government has no right to tell others not to gather to worship as their conscience leads. That doesn't mean they can't take precautions. It doesn't mean if they accidentally spread a virus that they were wrong.

    Plus as a Christian, I am supposed to be willing to worship Him even if it costs me convenience, prosperity, health, or even my life. That is how Christians have believed and behaved since He resurrected.

    Plus plus, some day I will be resurrected. Corona doesn't end my life really.
     
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  4. LongestHorn

    LongestHorn 1,000+ Posts

    And if all y’all choose to spread the virus to one another, I’m ok with that.

    The problem is you won’t just infect one another. And then it becomes a public health matter.
     
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  5. LongestHorn

    LongestHorn 1,000+ Posts

    Some media member needs to ask Trump to lead the room in a prayer during this time of crisis. You know, since he’s so religious. He wouldn’t know where to start. Levi 511?

    But we know you “Christians” would still slurp it.
     
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  6. Garmel

    Garmel 2,500+ Posts

    I bet you were a popular kid in school.
     
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  7. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    Hey Dion! How about giving this guy a warning? Pretty aggressive and direct insults here.
     
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  8. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    It isn't a public health matter. If you are super scared, stay home and wear a Hazmat suit. Get food delivered to you. Live your own life and quit telling others how to live theirs.
     
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  9. Horns11

    Horns11 5,000+ Posts

    How quickly the Romans 13 quoters abandon the verse when the shoe's on the other foot.

    If scripture is so narrow as to force religious gatherings, and technology has allowed gatherings in unique ways since 2000 years ago, then I don't think Jesus would say "yeah don't worry about coronavirus because infecting people with diseases actually just gets them closer to heaven." I think he'd err on the side of "worship me in smarter ways."
     
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  10. LongestHorn

    LongestHorn 1,000+ Posts

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Garmel

    Garmel 2,500+ Posts

    LOL! Like I said before you're going to die alone with nobody to give a crap.
     
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  12. Garmel

    Garmel 2,500+ Posts

    You can hide under the bed and tremble in fear. Others will live life.
     
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  13. Austin_Bill

    Austin_Bill 1,000+ Posts

    What good is a Constitution if government can suspend it whenever they choose.

    If you don't like the decisions of Christians go to a non-christian country.

    I swear, its like the left has declared war on the right.
     
  14. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    Most Christians quoting Romans 13 are fine with sitting at home and watching videos.

    I wouldn't go as far to say "forced". I would say there is an obligation from Hebrews 10 to meet physically, not absolute, not without context, but videos don't qualify. He never said "worship me in smarter ways." He said all kinds of other things about not fearing, faith, meeting together, etc. That doesn't mean people should be coughing into each other's faces, but Jesus also doesn't say, "oh you could get sick and have a chance of dieing of less than a percent, never mind."
     
  15. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    Longest Horn, I hope you don't act like this because you have lost your parents or something tragic like that, because that would be sad. Then I would feel a little bit of sympathy for you.
     
  16. horninchicago

    horninchicago 5,000+ Posts

    Apparently he got the **** kicked out of him a lot as a kid and now he comes on here and acts like this. It makes sense.
     
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  17. Garmel

    Garmel 2,500+ Posts

    Quite possible. He could also be an adult who hasn't accomplished much in life and this is how he lets out his frustration.
     
  18. horninchicago

    horninchicago 5,000+ Posts

    He once told me to not be a ******* cry baby and just do what the POS governor here in IL says to do. So, I don't really give 2 shits what his issues are in life. If he conducts his non-message board life like he does here, he ought to be an abject failure in life.
     
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  19. Horns11

    Horns11 5,000+ Posts

    Hate to push you on the technology stuff, but Hebrews was written like 1900 years ago. When it says "not neglecting to meet" in the NRSV, why would that not also be through the many different avenues in which churches are operating right now? You need physical presence to get holy presence?

    Heck, a ton of Hebrews is about being persecuted. Paul (or the author) says to suck it up because your reward's in heaven. I feel like this should be right up the alley of the people who are complaining about stay-at-home orders.

    If you honestly believe that Jesus is cool with accidental pandemic spread because it allows you to better worship him, then I think you're misreading the greatest commandment.
     
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  20. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    Oh my Gosh! Are you serious? Technology has changed since the 1st Century? Dang. I am going to have to think about this for a while. Never saw that coming. Thanks for pointing that out. Never would have consider that without you.
     
  21. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    Please use specific verses. Vaguery doesn't help. Where did it say I shouldn't meet with believers? Also, if I am willing to suffer, why isn't suffering from sickness a part of it? If God calls me to suffer, isn't getting sick worse than just watching videos?

    To me sitting at home watching videos sounds like not "sucking it up" but pursuing ease and comfort.

    So why didn't Jesus address viral spread in any of the Bible? If he isn't "cool" with accidental spread why doesn't he tell Christians to lock ourselves inside at the slightest hint of disease in the community?

    We know more today about virus spread, but how far are you willing to take this? How much risk is worshiping with other Christians? Can you quantify it? Should I make decisions by fear? If I am motivated by love for other Christians am I endangering them if I am not infected? Not showing symptoms in any way? What about if they want to meet with me and I want to meet with them? This isn't about me forcing my way into someone's house or forcing other people to come to a church. Everybody gets to decide for themselves. If I voluntarily show up and other people do to, have I wronged them? What if I wear mask? What if I refrain from touching them? What if I only relate to people how they say they want to be related to? I can think of 100 ways to worship with others in person and not cause them harm.

    About the greatest commandment. It is to love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and strength. How better to show my love for Him than to take a risk in worshiping Him.

    This isn't about Christians passing on the virus though. The cases where they did they weren't aware. It was before people understood the threat. The issue is that there are people that want others to do as they would have them do. Scolds. Tattle tales. Karens.
     
  22. LongestHorn

    LongestHorn 1,000+ Posts

    So lazy of you. That’s not at all what I said. I did not call you a “cry baby” ffs.
     
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  23. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada Winebibber

    LongestHorns
     
  24. nashhorn

    nashhorn 2,500+ Posts

    amen
     
  25. Horns11

    Horns11 5,000+ Posts

    How Christ-like in condescension.

    If worshipping in ways that weren't available when the NT was written seems too easy and comfortable for you, then it sounds like it's about you.

    Are you one of those Christians who say "if Jesus never said it in the Bible, then it's not indicative of the nature of Christ."? Do you think Jesus ever addressed any topics off the record? He was just silent all the other times when people were remembering/recording his parables 50 years afterwards? This whole "Jesus never said that" stuff is why hermaneutics exists. The gospel is about Who and Why Jesus is, not his takes on things like abortion or sports or whatever else... although I'll give you one: he did mention diseases several times. And cured them. Or commanded others to cure them.

    Your examples seem to be about wanting to worship with others, and therefore, worshipping with others. What does that sound like to you? I get that you are being cautious about it. But the "harm" in your equation isn't on your end... it's the burden of the group. If the group feels that livestreaming a worship service is too impersonal, and doesn't let you suffer enough disease risk as Paul suffered in prison, then I doubt I'll be able to convince you of much.

    You're forgetting the last part of the greatest commandment... at least according to Jesus.
     
  26. Driver 8

    Driver 8 smoooove

    Livestreaming concerns some pastors due to the separation of worshiper and collection plate, let's be honest
     
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  27. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    Horns11, sorry if I was condescending. Wasn't trying to be but I can be a pain naturally.

    It doesn't seem too easy or comfortable to me. It's very easy to me and I have done it, but that isn't the issue to me.

    No. I am not. But I do use a grammatical historical hermeneutic and do everything I can to exegete properly. My interpretation is trying to understand the intended meeting of the author and go with that. In the case of Hebrews, I think the author's meaning is clear. Does that mean we should never use technology to meet? That it is always wrong? No. I have been doing that very thing for over a month. But I do think the priority is placed on personal meeting. So that is what I want to do, after assessing the risk.

    I don't understand your point completely. I want to go to public worship with others who also want to of their own desire. I don't want people to do something that harms their own conscience or makes them feel scared. If no one else wants to meet personally, then I don't get much say in it. But if my family and others want to, why should we be kept from it?

    I personally don't want to suffer, but I should be willing to suffer. That's Biblical.

    Yes, I addressed the 2nd part. Loving others =/= Staying at home. There are a myriad ways to love others depending on the situation and the desires of the other person.
     
  28. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    Nah. Not for the most part. Online donations are the main way people give today. Or they can mail in a check.
     
  29. Horn6721

    Horn6721 Half of seeming clever is keeping your mouth shut.

    Yea btw some churches can be rip off artists but if you took the time to look into most of the mega churches what they do good in the community including minority communities will astound you .
     
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  30. AC

    AC 1,000+ Posts

    I ignored Longesthorn. Suggest y’all do the same. My Church is starting face to face worship next Sunday. Sorry it has come to all this.
     
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